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Old 02-14-2008, 12:35 AM   #1
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concrete floor...the pits!


a room in my basement, which previously had carpet,is now going to have vinyl tiles.
here's the problem: when I pulled out the carpet, of course I pulled out the "tackless strips" too and these were fastened to the floor with small masonry nails. pulling out these nails has left a nice "pit" where the nail was.
I'm concerned that the "pits" will appear in the tiles when they're laid down. is the primer I'm supposed to use going to fill those little pits or should I use something first to make the floor nice and smooth?

thx,

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Old 02-14-2008, 12:48 AM   #2
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concrete floor...the pits!


Those pits should be filled, use a concrete floor leveller mix or a patching compound. you will find leveller easier to use, don't mix too much, it goes off fairly quickly.

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Old 02-14-2008, 08:35 AM   #3
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concrete floor...the pits!


Quote:
I'm concerned that the "pits" will appear in the tiles when they're laid down.
What kind of tile are you planning to install? Must be vinyl tile?
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:25 AM   #4
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concrete floor...the pits!


Hi all,

Yes, music man said it's going to be vinyl tile. What specific tile is it? What adhesive, what primer? Why do you need a primer?

Patch the pits and any cracks with a Portland based filler/patch. Many good ones around, like Ardes brand.

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Old 02-14-2008, 12:19 PM   #5
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concrete floor...the pits!


Yow I missed the "vinyl tile" comment.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:30 PM   #6
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concrete floor...the pits!


ok. after all this time (about 4 mo.) I'm going to be doing that floor soon (don't ask why it's taking so long )
exactly how clean should the floor be before doing anything? it'ss got all kinds of stuff on it like dried paint, dried sheetrock mud etc. anything I can just pour on and soak to clean it up?

tnx,
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Old 06-22-2008, 09:45 PM   #7
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concrete floor...the pits!


Before I laid ceramic tile in my living room, after ripping up the carpet and pad, I had a lot of drywall mud, texture, and paint splatters on the floor. I used a scraper with a long handle (like a mop handle) to scrape it all up. Then I used my shop vac to suck it all up along with the dust that had sifted through the carpeting over the years. Then I wet mopped it

Whatever you do, don't try to sweep up that dust. It's so light and powdery you'll end up with a dust cloud that the wife will punish you for. Yep, I learned the hard way...

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Old 06-22-2008, 10:19 PM   #8
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concrete floor...the pits!


Analog Music Man:

You can fill those pits with any cement based floor leveling compound (like Mapei Planipatch). These pits are around the perimeter of the room so they won't be in any traffic areas where they're likely to show under the flooring. But, filling them with a cement based floor leveler and sanding them down will be all you need to do. I'd mix the Planipatch with the Plus additive only for the first application, allow to dry, scrape smooth with a paint scraper, mix the second coat of Planipatch with water only so it dries soft, and then sand smooth.

When you say "vinyl tile" do you mean vinyl composition tiles or Peel & Stick? Johnsonite also makes solid vinyl squares to be used as floor tiles. Do you mean those things?

With vinyl composition tiles, you don't need any "primer".

Maybe answer the quesiton of what kind of vinyl tiles you intend to put down first so we know what kind of flooring we're dealing with.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-22-2008 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:54 PM   #9
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concrete floor...the pits!


ok,Nestor,I got some of that "Planipatch" at Lowe's. you say to sand it down?
the tiles are the Armstrong "peel and stick" kind. the box says to use a latex primer.
after the room gets painted,my wife and I will start cleaning the floor.

tnx,
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:34 PM   #10
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concrete floor...the pits!


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Originally Posted by analogmusicman View Post
ok,Nestor,I got some of that "Planipatch" at Lowe's. you say to sand it down?
the tiles are the Armstrong "peel and stick" kind. the box says to use a latex primer.
after the room gets painted,my wife and I will start cleaning the floor.

tnx,
Never has I seen peel and stick that actually stick well and stay stuck, well at least not to the level I am happy with. For my basement, I put in Armstrong commercial VCT tiles with a wet adhesive designed for that purpose. They will NOT be coming loose.

You need a smooth, perfectly clean surface if you have any hope of getting thoses things to stick well. I would lay down 1/4 inch luan plywood and anchor it to the cement. If it were me, I would clean the floor up first if it was kind of rough before I put down the luan. (you said there were globs of mud and such, that is enough to keep the luan from sitting nice and flat).

Easy way: get a 17 inch or larger commercial floor scrubber, like an Advance or Clarke, with a Black scrubbing pad, have a commercial mop and bucket near by (under $50 at walmart for a commercial style mop and bucket rubbermaid), get the floor wet with soapy water, and use the floor machine to clean it right up.

Hard way: Scrape, sand and scrub by hand.

I strongly recommend the purchase of a Clean Stream filter for your shop vac, it catches fine dust partials and lasts many many times longer than any other filter on the market. Plus they are only about $30 at big box stores. You can get them wet also and they don't lose there suction.

Good Luck
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:59 PM   #11
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concrete floor...the pits!


hey,thanks for the suggestion Jamie, but this concrete floor will take some heavy-duty clleaning to get it to the point where it's ready for tiles. I'm thinking of "muriatic acid" (the dried stuff on the floor is oil-based I guess and nothing so far has touched it) any thoughts?

tnx,
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #12
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concrete floor...the pits!


Lauan plywood should never be applied directly to concrete. Please don't attempt that. It is a good substrate for vinyl tiles over wood subfloor however.

Muriatic acid is super-dangerous stuff. Personally, I'd try a lower grade concrete cleaning solution and a stiff brush first. Muriatic is used to etch concrete in preparation for staining and finishing, and has uses as a cleaner when really diluted.

I like the idea of renting a commercial floor cleaning-buffing machine. That will abrade the crud off the surface I bet!
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
...got all kinds of stuff on it like dried paint, dried sheetrock mud etc.

Muratic acid WILL NOT clean that floor. The acid attacks portland cement and lime not other contaminates. To use it would be a dangerous and risky waste of time.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:38 AM   #14
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concrete floor...the pits!


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Originally Posted by analogmusicman View Post
hey,thanks for the suggestion Jamie, but this concrete floor will take some heavy-duty clleaning to get it to the point where it's ready for tiles. I'm thinking of "muriatic acid" (the dried stuff on the floor is oil-based I guess and nothing so far has touched it) any thoughts?

tnx,
Floor machines with a Black 3M pad or even a more aggressive pad, can be extremely aggressive. With a black pad you can turn grind fairly hard stone down into powder, meaning you actually create sand like particles as the floor is scrubbed.

Acids only attack very specific substances, as well as they damage most concrete floors through etching. Also the 40% muriatic acid is quite dangerous, particularly in a basement. No insult intended, but No one that isn't trained (or extremely familiar with what there dealing with and the potential consequences) in the use of dangerous chemicals should be touching muriatic acid, particularly indoors. There are products that will remove the paint, but the danger of using them is just too high to recommend them to the general public for an application like what you doing.

Again, I highly recommend the floor machine. Check out your local rental place, and buy a gallon of simple green for $10 or similar and use it to saturate the floor as you scrub it clean. You may need more than one pad as well, but they are less than $10 per pad.

You can use a powder cleanser with water and the scrubbing machine for even more aggressive cleaning action.

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Old 09-17-2008, 05:03 PM   #15
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concrete floor...the pits!


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Lauan plywood should never be applied directly to concrete. Please don't attempt that. It is a good substrate for vinyl tiles over wood subfloor however.

I am curious for my future reference, What can you use over concrete as a underlayment? I've never put anything other than carpet or VCT down in a basement and never used an underlayment. But if I was installing a floor that required a sub floor, what would I use if I could not use Lauan?

Jamie

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