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-   -   Cement backer board (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/cement-backer-board-80522/)

wadeseward 09-04-2010 05:43 PM

Cement backer board
 
First off, I would like to say Hi. I am new to the Forum. I have been doing a bit of reading but don't really want to hijack someone else thread.

Question: I have removed the top layer of lino in my front entry leaving a layer fiberous material. I have bought 1/4" cement backer board that I plan to put down to be able to tile the entry. Is it OK to put the backer board over the lino remnants or do I have to scrap down to the subfloor. Height will not be an issue in regards to the door opening.

Thanks

retired guy 60 09-04-2010 06:08 PM

You should remove the linoleum remnants and fiberous material and then check that the floor is thick enough ( really firm enough) to support tile. If the substate needs reinforcement you can add a layer of plywood. In any case the usual application of CBU involves an application of modified latex thinset mortar and screws made for that purpose. So to get back to your question, I'd scrape the floor clean so that the thinset has better adhesion and so that all tiles are totally flat.
Turn back to this thread in a while and some of the more experienced pros will give you additional info. They tend to be very knowledgeable and helpful.

oh'mike 09-04-2010 06:19 PM

Was the lino installed over 1/4 inch underlayment?--If it was,it will be quicker to remove the old underlayment.

Look (search for a post by Bud Cline--preparing a floor for tile--very helpful.--Mike--

wadeseward 09-04-2010 11:40 PM

There is a 1/4 MDF or particle board under neath the lino. It has been put down with I'd say a gazzilion staples, making it a pretty tough job of getting it up. I have used Cement board to do tub walls I just have no experience with tiling floors. I am starting to see this may not be as easy as I thought. The tiles I plan to lay are 12 x 12 and the entry is on 8'6" x 5'6". I will take some pics and post, I sometimes am not the best at explaining.

racebum 09-05-2010 05:07 AM

do not put cement board over particle. particle is the single worst wood i can think of for tile. any moisture in it and you will pop tiles, grout or crack them. water will always win against stone. get the particle board up and see what you have for a subfloor and joist spacing. the guys can help you with what way to go.

the easy....well..not easy but how i would address what you say is either

A use the cat claw, remove nails and lift board
B skilsaw and set to the right depth, cut in pieces and crow bar up

oh'mike 09-05-2010 09:26 AM

That will come up easier than you think---find a seam --get a flat bar under it and the staples will pop right through.

Next come back and tell us what is under the underlayment---lets hope for 3/4' ply,not OSB.

wadeseward 09-05-2010 11:59 AM

There was a step that I had to remove that did not have the 1/4 particle over were the step was. It looks like there is OSB for a subfloor. I was under the impression I just put the backer board down then taped and "mudded" the board. Now that I know to put thinset underneath I have a new approach. I will rip the 1/4" Particle up and check joist spacing. I will then either lay 1/2" or 3/4" Plywood and then thinset-backerboard-tile. I have a far amount of room before the door will contact the floor when open. Hopefully i do not have to do any sisterering as I have no access to the floor joist other than from the top. I will figuire out how to load pics and post ASAP.

Thanks for all the help, I may have just Ramrodded my way through this.

wadeseward 09-05-2010 12:21 PM

Pics
 
Just a few pics, maybe help with my inability to explain.

[IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051007.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051006.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051005.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051003.jpg[/IMG]

The pics are of were the step used to be, I will be putting in a rectangle step as I never did like the round edges of the previous.

wadeseward 09-05-2010 01:08 PM

Glue
 
Is it common Practice to glue down the 1/4" particle as well as a boatload of staples?..

Because I am now stumped as to what I am going to do. I am ripping up the OSB sub floor underneath while pulling up 1/4 particle. Is it OK to fill in the spot with a 1/4 piece then go over the particle board with a 1/2" or 3/4" plywood?

Bud Cline 09-05-2010 03:24 PM

Particleboard anywhere in a rigid tile floor installation can wreck the tile job. Atmospheric and seasonal changes are enough to ruin the tile. Please DO NOT allow any particle board to remain. Oriented Strand Board (OSB) is however a different story and is acceptable.

Removing the staples isn't difficult but it certainly can be labor-intensive. The best way to remove them is to first use a heavy scraper, most of them will come out. The ones that won't can be removed one at a time using a pair of end-cutters or side-cutters. You could even snap them off and then hammer the remains back into the floor.

As far as repairing the subfloor...it just depends on how much damage you are creating. Sometimes the thinset used to set the cement board is enough to repair small divots. If you are adding another layer of plywood maybe you shouldn't worry about minimal damage to the subfloor.

How about a picture of the damage?:)

Aaroncarpet 09-05-2010 04:28 PM

it is easy to rip up the particle board ...use your circular saw to make some intial 1/2 -3/8 cuts so you can get a flat bar underneath the sub floor.... make a rectangle in the center..the staples will pull through the wood and be left on the plywood underneath (you can hammer down the staples after you remove the subfloor)....once you get a section out, the boards will pop at the seams and cut through the vinyl at the top with a sharp utility knife

Aaroncarpet 09-05-2010 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 496148)
That will come up easier than you think---find a seam --get a flat bar under it and the staples will pop right through.

Next come back and tell us what is under the underlayment---lets hope for 3/4' ply,not OSB.


oops someone already covered that

wadeseward 09-05-2010 04:31 PM

I went and got a flat bar to remove the 1/4 particle, in the second picture you can see were I have started to remove only to find out that it has be glued down with a subfloor glue. Would cutting into strips and ironing each piece possible work.[IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051012.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051011.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051010.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...s/P9051009.jpg[/IMG]

I am not sure how to make the pics bigger, This is not what I was expecting why glue the 1/4 to the OSB.

Hope these help.

retired guy 60 09-05-2010 05:07 PM

Since the 1/4 inch particle board is glued down it may be almost impossible to remove with reasonable effort. Switch to plan B. Cover it with 1/2 inch exterior plywood. There is more than one type of exterior ply. I am sure someone can suggest the correct type. This is what I would do, anyway.

Aaroncarpet 09-05-2010 06:18 PM

If there is a plywood subfloor underneath the 1/4 inch particle boardI would clean up the RIPOUT attempt maybe use floor patch skimcoat to clean up big gouges and I would screw dura ROCK RIGHT OVER IT EVERY 4 INCHES LATERALLY AND LONGITUDONALLY....THAT LOOKS LIKE OSB OVER PLYWOOD......DO do ou have access from under? if you can drill a hole in between joists you can determine the total depth and make joist cuts and and take it down to the joist then use 5/8 or 3/4 solid ply and durarock....you need a good circular saw with a combo metal wood pblade ....you can chesel and or sawzal the perimeter to lay new wood down....everyone uses const adhesive for subfloor now because they won 't have to rip it up...sometimes when you build stuff you have to think backwards...


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