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Old 09-15-2009, 02:00 PM   #1
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can we install cement board(wonder board)


my question is i wana install tiles on parquet floor and in a same time its so hard to remove parquet from sub floor and they are quite hard and sound no noise or squeging(under parquet is 3/4"subfloor),i put cement board1/4 thick with flex bond thin set and use cement board screws1"1/4 almost 50 to 60 screws on each sheet which is 36inchesx 60 inches now my next step is to start 13x13 porcelien tile its approximately area is 500sqft.i know if i could remove parquet it would be better my floor would be ok?
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Old 09-15-2009, 05:02 PM   #2
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we use that method when installing thin-stamp'd conc on wood w/1 exception,,, 1st we staple down 15# roofing felt THEN screw down hardibacker,,, ours comes out fine - even on 16" o/c joists.

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Old 09-15-2009, 05:15 PM   #3
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Wish you both the best of luck, you'll need it.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:00 PM   #4
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OMG!

Saj, What you're planning on doing is wrong and you will likely have some problems either right away or within a few seasons. You apparently know it's wrong, but you want someone to say it's OK. You will NOT get a pro to bless the hack work you're planning. At least it's in your own home however.

Hey concrete, Please remind me not to hire you and your company if I'm ever in need of your services. With junk work like you've described, no wonder people wanna install hardwood or laminate on their floors instead.

Jaz
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:56 AM   #5
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jaz, better know what you describe 'fore passing judgement,,, while tile has no flexural strength, polymer-modified does - often much higher than regular conc,,, the method described is the industry std,,, you really think laminate's decent ? ? ? admittedly, i'm not a tile guy but can do the work - just not all day NOR do we want the work

we've replaced our own hall tile over mud & 3/4" 5-ply,,, popp'd off old tile, sanded off remaining grout, hardibacker, expanded wire mesh, & conc,,, the same spot that creak'd w/tile still does - no cracking in 3yrs nor do i expect there will be any.

its not unusual for us to remove failing tile & replace w/conc,,, however, i blame the circumstances for putting tile in situations/environments where its not the best choice, jaz,,, realize dec conc's taking much of tile's work as many tile guys have come into our craft/trade.

btw, we've got carpet, tile, hardwood, polished conc, & hardwood in our house & polyaspartic/urethane/acid-stain in the garage
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:57 PM   #6
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Sorry, the only part I could fully understand was the part about not being a tile setter, but doing the work anyway.

Do whatever you like in your own home, but don't install any CBU the way you described above if you're gettin' paid. It is wrong and I'm sorry you don't know it. The proper way to do the job is easy to find with all the info tools at our finger tips.

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Old 09-16-2009, 09:54 PM   #7
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nope, not tilesetters as a trade altho many have come into our craft,,, we're decorative concrete artisans,,, the method describ'd is well-known & recommended by all suppliers/blenders/manufacturers of the products.

i don't wanna make a living doing tile work
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:35 PM   #8
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Keep it friendly gentlemen.
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:08 AM   #9
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oh, great, now we've got a mod lookin' over our shoulders,,, 'mite, don't you need to do sumthin' else to better utilize your time ? ? ?

jaz, send me your address so's i can send flowers
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:45 AM   #10
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This is interesting: 1/4" backerboard is added on top of a parquet floor as an underlayment for tile - the cbu is fine, although the OP should know that cbu doesn't add any structural support to his tiles (he needs more support in general) - PLUS the polymer-based concrete overlay system that "itsreallyconc" provides confirms this by saying that cbu is a sufficient substrate for that system and he does it often.

Both products (tile and overlay) are stronger, more resilient and less flexible than the cbu...I wonder whose floor would show cracks first?

I can confirm (because I have done it) that 1/2" cbu does take that companies' overlay system well, I just don't know if a whole floor would - but if itsreallyconc says it does, then I trust that. I wonder about the joints though...

And Jazman is right too: this floor system idea is a bad one and will not pass the test of time without cracks in the grout.

However, it's in the OP own home so anything goes...
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R&D Tile View Post
Wish you both the best of luck, you'll need it.
Useless post why even bother if your not going to try to help.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
OMG!

Saj, What you're planning on doing is wrong and you will likely have some problems either right away or within a few seasons. You apparently know it's wrong, but you want someone to say it's OK. You will NOT get a pro to bless the hack work you're planning. At least it's in your own home however.

Hey concrete, Please remind me not to hire you and your company if I'm ever in need of your services. With junk work like you've described, no wonder people wanna install hardwood or laminate on their floors instead.

Jaz
Useless post, again if your not going to help why bother posting?
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:15 AM   #13
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To the OP:
Their are several factors to be considered with regards to the installation of the backer board. Joist spacing, thickness of parquet and method used to install it, general condition of the floor, and deflection ratio of current sub floor are all things to be considered.

I prefer to run 1/2" plywood sub floor over the existing running in the opposite direction (glued and screwed) of the existing sub floor followed by 1/4" hardie board laid in a bed of mortar. This is not always an option but does go along way towards reducing deflection and increasing sturdiness of the floor. If you sanded the finish off the parquet and primed with an adhesive primer before installing the cbu you will probably be ok assuming your screws made it into the sub floor at least 3/4".

I have laid cbu's directly over 3/4" sub floor in mortar and tiled over and have had no problems or call backs for cracked grout lines or tiles. I have done additional work in some of these clients homes where I laid floors using these methods and there is no evidence of cracking to be seen several years later.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:15 PM   #14
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"Useless post, again if your not going to help why bother posting?"

Ari001:

I think the Jazman helped out plenty...the fact that he says 'don't do it' sometimes is reason enough to heed the advice of someone who has already done it. Now if he didn't say why not to do it, there may be a reason - but Jazman will always tell you why or why not.

Look, just because this is a DIY site doesn't mean the posters are to be encouraged to do everything themselves...I mean, just because you want to connect two wires together in your wiring panel, and you are physically capable, doesn't mean a licensed electrician will tell you to do so. I think the advice: "Get a professional in" is good advice indeed, and "don't do it" too provided the reasons are given. Sometimes too, an experienced pro doesn't have time to go into all the reasons for not to do something - but that explanation usually follows.

I personally like posters who have done at least some research into what they're doing, get stumped somewhere and come to this bb for advice; then I'm know there are several pros out there who will donate their time and expertise to help out. Next on my list of "favorites" are those that just go ahead and do it the way they think is right, get screwed up and then ask for advice on how to fix their problem.

Last are those who just want someone to tell them what to do; no research, no effort just: "How do I..." and fill in the blank. I have no time for these people here or anywhere else. Unless someone gives, I don't give either. It's a partnership - DIY or not.

And although you may feel in your self that someone's advice doesn't meet your standard, take the time to look into the other advice that that person has given elsewhere and see if he still doesn't qualify. People who don't know pros like the Jazman, Yuri, HVAClover, Ed the Roofer or Bud Cline (just to name names I know in certain areas and missing countless others) can easily take a poke at them on the internet - but remember this board wouldn't exist if there were no-one who made sense of DIY projects as these guys do...nothing is that easy.

I also think your own posts are very interesting to read as you are obviously qualified, and I may be off base here, but hope this was just a "venting" - LOL - as mine is!
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:40 PM   #15
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cc,
I understand your point about researching the projects you are about to do. I somewhat agree with you, but people do use this forum as a place to start their research also. Simply stating something like:

Quote:
Wish you both the best of luck, you'll need it.
serves no purpose what so ever. If you don't have the time or don't care to expand on the comment don't make it. I ignore lots of posts for those very reasons. It does no good to tell somewhat to or not to do something in the manner of those posts without the explanation. The posters may be qualified but waste every bodies time by making posts in the manner they did. The cbu has already been installed it is to late for don't do it. Explain the correct way(s) to do it in the future or recommend a place to find the information so the same mistake is not made again. The answers just rubbed me the wrong way so yeah, I guess I was venting. Probably doesn't help that I've been sick for the past 4 days. That alone has me unusually grumpy.

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