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Old 08-07-2008, 06:16 PM   #16
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Bouncy mortar bed


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Originally Posted by zircon View Post
You have to start over and make sure the subfloor is not bouncy. Suggest you also check out the John Bridge Forum which is a tile only site and there are people who are experts who will help you.


FWIW: There are experts on this forum as well. They are very willing to help other members with their projects and DIY questions.

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Old 08-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #17
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I'll bet no one on the other website(s) recognized the "tenting" problem and they also didn't mention that the wire that should have been used also should have been fastened to the substrate thereby discouraging the tenting issue.

Wire not only holds cracking concrete together it also discourages the cracking to begin with.

There are self proclaimed pros then there are experienced pros, you choose the ones you want to deal with.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:25 PM   #18
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javan,
Its encouraging to hear that someone else has had the same dilemna and working on the joists solved it. I just didn't know enough about mortar beds. I just trusted the expert. One suprising aspect was the height of the new floor. I would've need a pretty massive threshold.

bud,
Your tenting suggest sounds right on. Yes we just poured the floor tight against the walls and there are no cracks (at least around the moving area). I am removing the floor tomorrow. Not sure I will be getting any of the money I paid back. Only $300, not the last $300 I'd ever waste.

Yoyizit,
Like I said, the crack doesn't bother me too much. The mortar bed moves as one rigid body although there's almost no movement at all towards the center of the room. Yes there is an air gap, it appears, filling the gap from below will be almost impossible.

This was my first post here and the response was more than I expected. Yes Bud, the folks on John Bridge never suggested tenting. You guys are the best!

If all goes well, I should have the new floor done by Monday. I will post how it went.

Thanks guys
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:35 PM   #19
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Good Luck!

Have you considered Self Levelling Compound?
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:58 PM   #20
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For some reason i don't trust self leveling compound. I've read a lot of horror stories about SLCs plus they don't come cheap.

Any word of advise or helpful links for sistering. I'm guessing I can just go to Home Depot and pick up some 2 x 8's and just bolt or screw them against the existing the joists.

Can i just use deck screws for the sistering or do I have to bolt the lumber. Anything else I should know?

Trying to do my homework this time around.

Thanks
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:08 AM   #21
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For some reason i don't trust self leveling compound. I've read a lot of horror stories about SLCs plus they don't come cheap.
OK, If you say so...........

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Any word of advise or helpful links for sistering. I'm guessing I can just go to Home Depot and pick up some 2 x 8's and just bolt or screw them against the existing the joists.
BOY!!!! Is that annoying, or what! I asked you for floor joist criteria and you ignored my questions. Now you say you have 2X8 joists? Those things aren't suitable for anything when it comes to tile installations.

Bolt them.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:57 AM   #22
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Bud, does cement expand or contract when it cures?
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:39 AM   #23
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Sorry bud, didn't mean to ignore you question about the joists, I just didn't know the answer and I still don't know until I rip out the floor. I just assumed I could use 2x8s for the sister joists, I wasn't implying that I knew my joists where 2x8s.

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Old 08-08-2008, 10:09 AM   #24
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I'll bet no one on the other website(s) recognized the "tenting" problem and they also didn't mention that the wire that should have been used also should have been fastened to the substrate thereby discouraging the tenting issue.
You have more info on tenting, or a good link? This is new one on me.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:35 PM   #25
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Bud, does cement expand or contract when it cures?
Is this a test? Will I be graded on my answer?
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:09 PM   #26
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Is this a test? Will I be graded on my answer?
We'll send you a video of a woman in a bikini mowing a lawn, from the lawn care post.
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:03 PM   #27
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The guy that did work came in today to look at his mess. First he starts to blame my subfloor and gets all defensive. I suggested we cut open a piece and I will prove to him my subfloor is not moving. And then he says, well we can chisel out the four corners where the movement is most pronounced, add wire mesh and re-pour.

I told him I will think about it, is this a good idea?

Last edited by padola07; 08-09-2008 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:58 AM   #28
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Do whaaaat ?!?

I'm not understanding.
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:10 AM   #29
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Let me try to explain better. This is what he wants to do.

Take a chisel to the 4 corners of the room and chisel out the moving parts. I'd say that amounts to may be a foot and a half along each wall in the corner... staple down wire mesh to the exposed sub floor and repour the floor in those areas. I thought it sounded crazy but he has 30 years experience and wouldn't like to hear that from a young punk like me.

Alright so I just finished the chiseling and I think I know what at least part of the problem is. The height of the mortar bed on the corners is about 1/4 inch. Those areas are the highest points in the sub floor so they required the least amount of mortar. I remember reading here that a mortar bed must be at least an inch.
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #30
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Here's a solution not easy but the way I've seen it done by the pros. Rip out the poured mortar bed. remove all subfloor down to the joists attach 2x4's to both sides of floor joists 3/4 in below the highest one then level off of that point so all sistered members are level, cut 3/4 plywood to fit between your joists and secure with adhesive and screws, You now have a level subfloor to place your mortar bed on and an addition 3/4 in thickness in that bed, lay felt allow it to run up the wall higher than the proposed mortar bed, attach your chicken wire to floor, lay your mortar bed this should be a dry pack mortar bed, just enough moisture to allow it to stick together when packed like a snow ball, it will almost look too dry but it ain't.

That's what I'd do but I ain't you. Good Luck!

Another or the reason your first bed rocked, it was too thin and dried out at the thin area while the deeper parts dried and shrank only on top, tenting or curling as called in the concrete field a common problem when slabs dry unevenly. Expansion and contraction of small indoor mortar beds that are in conditioned spaces such as your bath and not directly heated by strong sunlight have very little expansion or contraction.

You can value my advice and opinions at what you paid for them.

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