Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-19-2007, 04:31 PM   #16
HJ1
tile man
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 28
Share |
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Go to the websites for wonderboard, durock, hardibacker and any other cbu. Download the instructions and print them out. Give them to your contractor. All of the cbu manufacturers require that the board be bedded in thinset. None say its optional or not required. If this guy doesnt do it right now, you'll be paying to do it over a few years down the road and he'll be no where to be found. He's full of crap if he's telling you he's been doing it this way for 20 years with no failures. Send him here and we'll tell him how to do it right.
HJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2007, 07:35 AM   #17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


I know you all are right. We won the battle of having them pull out the tub and reset it. But I admit to caving when it came to our other points, (no vapor barrier behind shower wall cbu and gluing cbu on floor to the plywood instead of using thinset.) My husband is very conflict aversive and I have a lot of fight in me, but I'm just worn out. At this point, I just want them out of my house.

So if there are any shady contractors out there--just keep being short, beligerant and hateful. Your client will eventually give up, just to get rid of you! (Of course your return business might be a problem, so be sure to cast a wide net!)

I'm not proud of giving in; I'm just exhausted.

What I'd say to anyone out there reading this who has never hired a contractor for a bathroom renovation, but is about to: make "workmanlike" a matter of contract. Don't assume they will do according to industry standard but make it part of your contract that they will do the work in a certain way (moisture barrier behind durock; durock shimmed or furred from the wall so it doesn't go out of level at the tub flange; subfloor/thinset/durock with durock screws, etc.) When you read on these forums a lot there is a certain baseline of procedure that "everyone" seems to follow. But the truth is "out there" in the construction world there are people that are doing all kinds of s##t (pardon my french) and have been doing it this way (i.e. incorrectly and badly) for years. They've made a profession from doing shoddy work, all over the city. Shocking but true. And these guys had very good references but when at one point, when the subcontractor said to me "but most people aren't are picky as you are" (is caring about level and plumb "picky?") it dawned on me that most people just aren't paying attention and don't really know what their contractor is doing, or more importantly NOT doing. And sometimes ignorance is bliss (the job LOOKS good; wish I didn't know what is wrong underneath) but most of the time ignorance will just buy you more trouble down the road.

Sorry if I sound like I'm crying into my beer--I AM a bit! I just hope somebody at least reads this and doesn't make the same mistakes we have!!

-J.
House_Amuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2007, 08:30 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,861
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


I think if you use ditel, you kill two birds with one stone, vapour barrier and durrock... at the same time... may be it is too late for your project... but for anyone else....
KUIPORNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2007, 06:31 PM   #19
Lic. Builder/GC/Remodeler
 
AtlanticWBConst.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 7,556
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by House_Amuck View Post
I know you all are right. We won the battle of having them pull out the tub and reset it. But I admit to caving when it came to our other points, (no vapor barrier behind shower wall cbu and gluing cbu on floor to the plywood instead of using thinset.) My husband is very conflict aversive and I have a lot of fight in me, but I'm just worn out. At this point, I just want them out of my house.

So if there are any shady contractors out there--just keep being short, beligerant and hateful. Your client will eventually give up, just to get rid of you! (Of course your return business might be a problem, so be sure to cast a wide net!)

I'm not proud of giving in; I'm just exhausted.

What I'd say to anyone out there reading this who has never hired a contractor for a bathroom renovation, but is about to: make "workmanlike" a matter of contract. Don't assume they will do according to industry standard but make it part of your contract that they will do the work in a certain way (moisture barrier behind durock; durock shimmed or furred from the wall so it doesn't go out of level at the tub flange; subfloor/thinset/durock with durock screws, etc.) When you read on these forums a lot there is a certain baseline of procedure that "everyone" seems to follow. But the truth is "out there" in the construction world there are people that are doing all kinds of s##t (pardon my french) and have been doing it this way (i.e. incorrectly and badly) for years. They've made a profession from doing shoddy work, all over the city. Shocking but true. And these guys had very good references but when at one point, when the subcontractor said to me "but most people aren't are picky as you are" (is caring about level and plumb "picky?") it dawned on me that most people just aren't paying attention and don't really know what their contractor is doing, or more importantly NOT doing. And sometimes ignorance is bliss (the job LOOKS good; wish I didn't know what is wrong underneath) but most of the time ignorance will just buy you more trouble down the road.

Sorry if I sound like I'm crying into my beer--I AM a bit! I just hope somebody at least reads this and doesn't make the same mistakes we have!!

-J.
No, you are right, I can't tell you how many times I am so dissapointed when I see really poor substandard work. I really feel for the property owners.
We are currently evaluating the repair of a kitchen addition that is heaving up. The Contractor will not return phone calls to the home owner.
We just finished up a basement remodel this week that an 'alleged contractor' messed up. I have to drive out tomorrow to evaluate repairs to a messed up bathroom remodel by the same guys....

Bottom line is that there are some people that do this job simply for the money, and then there are some that want to do the best job possible on any given project and look forward to seeing a very happy customer that has a finished .... high quality job.
We are constantly on the look out for better materials and better methods. We want all our work to be done expertly, a notch better than the best.
We feel our customers have put their trust in us, and they deserve the best. Our goal is to deliver it .... no matter what.
We only hire subcontractors who have the same ethics as we do. There are many contractors out there that feel the same way.

I am very sorry to hear about what you went thru. Just realize that there are professional General Contractors out there, and when you do find them, keep their number and share it with others....

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 03-20-2007 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Sometimes I spell like a pre-schooler
AtlanticWBConst. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2007, 09:10 PM   #20
Member
 
Darylh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nanoose Bay Vancouver Island BC
Posts: 460
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Bottom line is that there are some people that do this job simply for the money, and then there are some that want to do the best job possible on any given project and look forward to seeing a very happy customer that has a finished .... high quality job.
We are constantly on the look out for better materials and better methods. We want all our work to be done expertly, a notch better than the best.
We feel our customers have put their trust in us, and they deserve the best. Our goal is to deliver it .... no matter what.
We only hire subcontractors who have the same ethics as we do. There are many contractors out there that feel the same way.

I am very sorry to hear about what you went thru. Just realize that there are professional General Contractors out there, and when you do find them, keep there number and share it with others....

Well this just about sums it up for me too. It's the real pits hearing about situations like the one your going through and I wish these wanta bees would just stay home.....
Darylh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2007, 01:08 PM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


The cement board that is being used, is in fact Durock brand. It is installed upside down. Durock is a specific brand of cement board (rather than a type) and has two sides; a smooth side for mastic applications and a rough side for mortar applications. For a flooring application, the smooth side should be down and bonded with a thinset mortar. Additionally, cement board screws (those aren't cement board screws that you have in there now) should be used to fasten the boards. Also, I noticed that none of the joints are taped. This is a common thing for contractors to skimp out on due to money savings for them, but if you tile over the board as is, your warranty is void.
someguyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 08:36 AM   #22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


I found this thread because I have an installer here now doing what I believe is the same thing. I saw no signs of any mortar, but I unscrewed a smaller piece of Durock and it is being held down with something like liquid nails or mastic.
I wondered how the original thread starter's floor is holding up?
Also I was looking at Durock's website and I can't actually find anywhere that indicates it has to have thinset underneath? I know it is a good practice and understand why, but like the OP, if you are going to butt heads with the contractor, I would like something definite in writing.
mikeb33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 11:35 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 91
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb33 View Post
I know it is a good practice and understand why, but like the OP, if you are going to butt heads with the contractor, I would like something definite in writing.
Why would you need this? You're the boss, just kindly explain to your contractor how you want it done. The materials involved are pretty trivial and the cement board may be able to be reused. The purpose here is not "holding down", but more so "holding up" and the mastic or adhesive will not perform this function.
TomServo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 12:58 PM   #24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


I understand why you answered that way.
I am at fault for not specifying how I wanted it up front. Since I didn't, I don't feel it is fair to make him redo it unless it is obviously agaisnt manufacturer's directions. I could not find on USG's website where it says you need to do it.
BTW my sub floor is 3/4" T&G plywood in good shape, no water damage or obviously hi or low spots. I am hoping the worse the floor, the more the need for mortar? I've been walking all over the durock and don't hear or feel any movement or anything.
mikeb33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 01:13 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 91
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Well, if you truly feel it is your fault, I would just make it clear that you'll pay for it to be changed. Surely the contractor could not object to that.

All I could find was a PDF that referred to mortar or adhesive. Can you tell whether they troweled out the adhesive?

Anyway, it seems like common sense that the less variation in the subfloor, the less need for the mortar.
TomServo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 01:25 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 347
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Oh crap...reading this thread made me realize that I forgot to put thinset down when I put in my Hardibacker flooring! I've already laid in the tile and grout!

This bathroom is small - only 6' x 6'. I have two layers of subflooring screwed into the joists, and it was very solid when I walked on it. I used a lot of concrete screws to screw the Hardibacker into place and I did tape and mortar the joints.

How much trouble am I in?? Please don't tell me I need to pull up the tile and grout and flooring and redo it!!
spaceman spif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 02:35 PM   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


I heard them trowling it out from the floor below. I assumed it was mortar, but after they left I saw what looked like a liquid nails type of adhesive around the seams.
mikeb33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 03:39 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 91
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


Mike,

It sounds like USG is actually OK with the adhesive, so that wouldn't give you any ammunition. There's some discussion over here.

Personally, I would prefer the thinset, too. I think its really up to you to decide whether you want to pay your contractor to redo it. I might take a 4' level to the Durock surface and see if there are any variations (in flatness, not "levelness"). If it's flat, then you should be OK.

spaceman spif,

There's no sense in worrying about it now, is there? What's done is done. BTW, the solidness is good, but is more related to the subfloor. The backer board isn't for structure...its purpose is to provide a flat, water-resistant substrate that has some "tooth" for the top layer of thinset to bond to.
TomServo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 10:33 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 505
Default

Backerboard not in mortar -- How bad is that?


skipping on thinset is the single most common area to cut corners in my area. TONS of guys do it. on a perfectly level and clean floor i've seen it live for many years BUT, how many floors are really that level? the thinset is a void filler and prevents popping from ever occurring. i personally have never laid a cement board floor and not used thinset under. that being said one of my bathrooms was done by the previous owner back in 2002 with white marble on wonderboard, no thinset, just screwed down. so far not a problem one. the one tid bit i will share is that i've had better luck leveling the floor on screw down by mixing the thinset on the runny side. basically where you can hold a trowel line but it falls down a bit after a minute or two.
racebum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad Brick Mortar ??? kourso Building & Construction 21 11-08-2010 12:11 AM
Is it bad to use mortar to level a floor? CB2007 Flooring 4 10-01-2008 08:38 AM
Is Structalite up for Tub-setting (instead of mortar?) House_Amuck Plumbing 2 03-20-2007 06:09 PM
can I reuse mortar bed ? mf915 Flooring 1 07-04-2006 07:14 PM
Forgot mortar under backerboard sharisavage Flooring 4 04-16-2006 05:00 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.