Alright...crazy questions about using Schluter-Ditra for this.

Vito117 · 10-07-2010, 11:20 AM

I'd like to do a stained concrete floor in my living and kitchen. About 550 sq. ft.
Sub floor of the house is constructed of 2 layers of 1/2" plywood ( 1" overall) over 16" OC joists.
House built in 1962 and is quite solid.

Instead of using 1/4" - 1/2" cement board.......
Can I or am I smoking crack

in thinking what if I use the Ditra over the plywood floor installed as mfr's directions then top the Ditra with a skim coat ( 1/8" - 1/4" ) of concrete topping or similar product then stain.
Did a Google and turned up nothing as to if this has been attempted.

Thoughts?

Blondesense · 10-08-2010, 10:30 AM

Not an expert, but I don't think this is a good idea. I've never heard of stained concrete done over joists, just on a slab. Any, and I mean ANY movement or bounce in the floor will turn it to rubble.

Vito117 · 10-08-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blondesense

Not an expert, but I don't think this is a good idea. I've never heard of stained concrete done over joists, just on a slab. Any, and I mean ANY movement or bounce in the floor will turn it to rubble.

Naw.
It's done on exterior wood decks.
The sub-straight and type of topping is the key.

12penny · 10-08-2010, 01:14 PM

Schluter 1-800-472-4588 Ask for tech service

JazMan · 10-08-2010, 10:55 PM

Hey Vito....whatcha smoking there? Well....gimmi some!

How about plan B?

Jaz

Vito117 · 10-09-2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan

Hey Vito....whatcha smoking there? Well....gimmi some!

How about plan B?

Jaz

Plan B:
1/4" Hardi or other cement board set with thin set and screws. Then top with the 3/16" polymer concrete coating.
Then stain.
Then sealer.

JazMan · 10-09-2010, 08:02 PM

OK Vito,

I haven't studied that type of installation for the purpose of doing concrete staining. If that polymer coating is designed for that use, then I'm sure it'll work. Obviously you've checked all that out using cement backers I guess. I just thought the "crete" would crack up.

Do you have names or web-sites?

Jaz

poppameth · 10-10-2010, 12:53 PM

Mapei makes several topping compounds that could be used for this. They are designed to take a stain and hold up to foot traffic. I'd check with Schluter about using Ditra in this application though.

Bud Cline · 10-11-2010, 11:21 AM

As mentioned Mapei offers several toppings (in the form of SLC's) for this purpose but be warned...

Most SLC's will telegraph the substrate in most cases depending on the thickness of the topping. Using DITRA may be a good idea but expect the waffles to (ghost) through to the surface. The acid stains will then fall victim to the ghosting I think.

I'm sure it is do-able but cutting corners and cheaping-out wouldn't be the way to go.

Vito117 · 10-11-2010, 11:27 AM

Looks like the cost of this Ditra and the fail risks outweigh me using this.
I'll be using Hardi board instead.
Ive already done a mock up with the Hardie and a topping of 3/16" thick Quickrete re-surfacing cement. Hard and quite flexible.
The stain mock up didn't turn out so well.
Too dark and the results look like dark paint splattered all over.

Bud Cline · 10-11-2010, 12:01 PM

I would say you are using the wrong products.

"Re-surfacing cement" wouldn't be correct in this case. It doesn't have the density you need for using acid stain.
What stain did you use?

Hardi would have to be sealed before an application of any mortar product I would think.

I'm sure it is do-able (with SLC's) but cutting corners and cheaping-out wouldn't be the way to go.(2)

Vito117 · 10-11-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline

I would say you are using the wrong products.

"Re-surfacing cement" wouldn't be correct in this case. It doesn't have the density you need for using acid stain.
What stain did you use?

Hardi would have to be sealed before an application of any mortar product I would think.

I'm sure it is do-able (with SLC's) but cutting corners and cheaping-out wouldn't be the way to go.(2)

Bud:

I used Quickrete resurfacer since it has polymers and formulated for a bit of flex?
http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines...Resurfacer.asp

Then applied semi transparent stain tinted to my color:
http://www.quikretecoatings.com/prod...ent-Stain.html

I didn't apply any pre-treat or sealer to the Hardie.
Just got it wet than spread the Quickrete over in a pourable mix.
Dried fast and bonded like glue.

Bud Cline · 10-11-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

I used Quickrete resurfacer since it has polymers and formulated for a bit of flex?

Still don't see how that product can be used for your purposes but I don't know what results you are expecting.

Quote:

Then applied semi transparent stain tinted to my color:

The porosity of the resurfacer product is the problem as I see it. It is not dense enough to do anything but absorb the color pigments. If you want the look of the "tinted" but clear finish the density must be greater I think. What you have there is nothing more than porch-paint basically.

Quote:

I didn't apply any pre-treat or sealer to the Hardie.
Just got it wet than spread the Quickrete over in a pourable mix.
Dried fast and bonded like glue.

Hardi will absorb the moisture from the mix way too fast. Wetting it first was a good idea but...

There are products formulated for what you want to do. Acid concrete stains will produce the variables seen in stained concrete, tinted clear coatings will not.

I still think the product choices are not the right ones.

Go here for some advice:
http://www.gayegoodman.com

They have a forum where you can get the answers you are looking for.