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Old 04-13-2010, 06:10 PM   #91
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Unintended kitchen remodel


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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
Very impressive, Itsdanf. I hadn't noticed this thread before and came across it just now. You do good work and I am learning a lot of practical what to do and what not to do for when I do my much simpler sub-panel (if i ever have the time).

I made special note not to overtighen any box clamps about NM.
Thanks! You'll probably learn more from my mistakes than my successes... -- but that still works!

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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
Question. On another thread you asked about how much material could be bored out of the wall studs and there was some discussion about doubling them or using a metal shoe.

a. From what I can see you haven't drilled that close to the edge of the studs, but is there a problem caused by the number of holes bored vertically above each other?
I couldn't find a rule about a maximum number of bored holes -- just that they should be aligned vertically, not side-by-side, etc. Regardless, I had NO options. Top of the panel was pressed up against the top plate, and the lowest hole was bored a few inches above the bottom of the stud resting on the bottom plate (which is above the landing level; the two photos below show top and bottom plates). It was tough enough just getting all the cables routed through in the available area of stud.

I'm also challenged because I have 4 remaining slots, and I want to run four 12/2 NM cables from the panel to the attic for future use; however, I have to figure out how to squeeze them through the remaining holes (somehow).

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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
b. I doubt that any is "required" but are you going to protect the nm where it passes through those studs with nails shields (not what they are called but I think you will know what I mean) on the outside of the studs?
Yes, definitely. I think the holes are deep enough to avoid reaching by drywall screws or casual nailing, but I'm not taking any chances.

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Originally Posted by Klawman View Post
c. Is there some requirement that those cables are supposed to be fastened within X inches of the panel, usually stapled to a stud or a board on which the panel is mounted? If you have them clamped to the panel that may fill the bill. Just asking.
I think there's a rule about being "supported," which usually means stapling. However, I seem to recall reading that NM routed through stud holes are considered "supported" (maybe just for remodel work, can't remember). I could be totally wrong on this, but.... ...in my case, those cables are as good as stapled in those holes (almost all holes are doubled-up, so they're somewhat snug).

I noted in my last post that I still have to secure the cables in the attic going into the junction box. I'm thinking that excessive movement might have contributed to the short I created from the too-tight clamp. When I get up there to start stapling, I think I'll shut down the panel first, minimize any movement of the cables when I staple them, and then individually start up the circuits again. After that one POP, I want to be very careful with the rest!

Thanks for the positive feedback and good questions.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:18 PM   #92
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Unintended kitchen remodel


What can I say. I would much rather learn from your mistakes than my own, and I don't think you have made few and no important ones. Why I am horsing around trying to clean 20 years of crap out of my garage, which is a lot more of a job than installing the sub will be, I am looking into replacing the breakers for the hose with AFCI combos.

Meanwhile, I talked with Ed and might be getting my TS-Aligner in a few weeks.

By the way, nice house.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:29 PM   #93
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Unintended kitchen remodel


ARGH! CHANGE OF PLANS!

I've been happily retired, but still "young" and not financially independent. The one new career opportunity I've been pursuing has suddenly rushed upon me. I start my new career in late-June -- working for most of you! I'm joining the US State Department as a Foreign Service Officer, and will be working in embassies around the world as a diplomat.

Alas, this will seriously deter from my ongoing projects in my humble abode here in Texas.

Also, I'll now be rushed to bring the disrupted kitchen into some semblance of order before I deploy -- not to mention finishing the electrical project cleanup! Now, instead of being in a leisurely retiree existence, I'm now having to get a LOT done in a SHORT period of time!

So, the new kitchen plan: Scrap the whole-kitchen remodel. Focus on building a cabinet to replace the one I demo'd to fix the original leak. Let my wife handle outsourcing the rest of the reconstruction work (counter tops, backsplash, new kitchen sink, etc.) while I'm off for training.

And this was going to be such a fun project. Oh well..........
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:34 PM   #94
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Well congrats on the new career atleast!!
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:08 PM   #95
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Unintended kitchen remodel


Congratulations! It's nice to see people getting jobs.

I wish you all the best.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:53 PM   #96
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Unintended kitchen remodel


Congrats Itsdanf,

Even though the project may not be a complete DIY, please make sure to post back how it turns out.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:45 PM   #97
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Nothing like a little "instant pressure" to get things moving is there!
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Old 05-15-2010, 11:07 PM   #98
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Unintended kitchen remodel


Just back from a 2 week vacation (Ozarks in N. Arkansas and Branson, MO), and a week visiting my post-op mother (full knee replacement -- yuck, but she's recovering remarkably). Not much time to work 'round the house -- and the clock's ticking!

Before vacation, I went back up to the attic to staple down all the cables going into the mega junction box. All's nice and tidy now. Before I started, I cut the main breaker. Moving so many live cables around clamped to the box, I didn't want to experience another short UP CLOSE. Fortunately, no more shorts.

Today I went back to work trying to find the short in one of my circuits (never popped a breaker on my FPE panel, but immediately popped the AFCI breaker in the new box). It's been driving me crazy, because some of the wiring was "irregular," and I figured there HAD to be a hidden junction somewhere. Yup, finally isolated a place and broke open the drywall, finding a hidden junction mess. I finally isolated the errant cable (never found the short location or cause), and re-cabled around it. Since I broke into the drywall from within an HVAC closet, I didn't bother re-drywalling; I just used plywood (my wife called it "plywall" ), and put a junction box into that. Once I paint it, the plywall will never be noticed.

Bought a texturing brush (to use when replacing drywall around the old and new panels), which I hope matches the existing texture sufficiently.

Hopefully more progress soon.
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:32 AM   #99
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Unintended kitchen remodel


...and THANKS everyone for the positive comments about my exiting retirement!

Dan

PS: Not much done today. Weather was too good, so we HAD to go for a long ride on the motorcycles! (No work photos today, so bike pics attached; hers is black, mine's white). Wired four extra 12/2 Romex cables from the electric panel to the attic, so the wall won't have to be busted out in the future to add new circuits. Bought a new ceiling fan for the master bedroom (old one's shot); I'll be using a new circuit to power it, as the circuit the current one's on is overloaded. Kitchen?? Still planning....
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:06 AM   #100
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Unintended kitchen remodel


Another distraction project thrown into the mix (which is fine; any excuse to put off drywall worrk).

Our main living room originally had exposed rough-sawn cedar beams on the cathedral ceiling, with a very dark stain finish. The prior owner was paint-crazy, painting almost everything in off-white -- including the exposed cedar beams!

Ever since we moved in, we've been trying to solve this aesthetic problem. Obviously we had to paint. My original thought was to use a paint-and-glaze approach, to try to keep the beams looking like stained wood. Of course, alas, they would always look painted if examined closely.

However, we had a hard time finding paint the color of wood. After all, nobody wants to paint interior walls brown! To help us describe to the paint store guy the shades of brown we were looking for, we used the color samples they had for stain products.

Stain? Hmmm.......

Yup, decided to take a small can of Minwax stain (8 fl oz/1/2 pint) home, and see if we could stain the paint. Tested an isolated spot, and...it worked great! The crap paint they had used took the stain quite readily -- and the result looked like stained wood, not painted wood!

The attached photos show 1) first try, with only one beam stained; 2) the finished job with all beams stained; and 3) & 4) close-ups. Although I would have selected a darker stain in hindsight (the white paint caused the final shade to be a bit lighter than expected), my wife is VERY pleased (and therefore, of course, so am I).

Oh, and the best part: That one dinky can of stain did the whole 26.5'x24.5' room!!! Apparently the thin layer of paint didn't soak up too much stain. Just over $4 to accomplish. Sweet.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:17 AM   #101
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Unintended kitchen remodel


So now to drywalling the wall around the new electrical panel.

First I put in insulation hardboard on the back of the cavities -- except directly below the panel. I should have put it in before wiring, because there was no way to insert rigid board now.

I then insulated with paper-backed pink stuff, except the far-right cavity. It was narrower than standard, and to avoid the hassle of having to cut insulation lengthwise, I just used the old insulation I originally pulled out -- precut, and going behind a built-in cabinet anyway.

Finally, I cut a single piece of drywall, which fit perfectly on the first shot! I still got it. Nailed it up, and ready to move on.

However........
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:26 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
Another distraction project thrown into the mix (which is fine; any excuse to put off drywall worrk).

Our main living room originally had exposed rough-sawn cedar beams on the cathedral ceiling, with a very dark stain finish. The prior owner was paint-crazy, painting almost everything in off-white -- including the exposed cedar beams!

Ever since we moved in, we've been trying to solve this aesthetic problem. Obviously we had to paint. My original thought was to use a paint-and-glaze approach, to try to keep the beams looking like stained wood. Of course, alas, they would always look painted if examined closely.

However, we had a hard time finding paint the color of wood. After all, nobody wants to paint interior walls brown! To help us describe to the paint store guy the shades of brown we were looking for, we used the color samples they had for stain products.

Stain? Hmmm.......

Yup, decided to take a small can of Minwax stain (8 fl oz/1/2 pint) home, and see if we could stain the paint. Tested an isolated spot, and...it worked great! The crap paint they had used took the stain quite readily -- and the result looked like stained wood, not painted wood!

The attached photos show 1) first try, with only one beam stained; 2) the finished job with all beams stained; and 3) & 4) close-ups. Although I would have selected a darker stain in hindsight (the white paint caused the final shade to be a bit lighter than expected), my wife is VERY pleased (and therefore, of course, so am I).

Oh, and the best part: That one dinky can of stain did the whole 26.5'x24.5' room!!! Apparently the thin layer of paint didn't soak up too much stain. Just over $4 to accomplish. Sweet.
Four bucks...I dunno...that's pretty extravagant don't you think?
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:31 AM   #103
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...in the last pic of the prior post, you can see a lack of nails along the bottom of the new board. This is because the wiring going through the studs were all blocked off with metal barriers, so there was no place to secure the drywall. Because the insulation was so packed, the board was bowing out along the bottom (see photo below). This would be a bear to handle through mudding, and likely to lead to cracking later (first time someone bumped hard against the wall).

Sadly, decided to rip out the drywall and start again. I lifted out the bottom of the insulation, nailed in a wood block, and thinned the insulation by removing some of the batting.

To save another trip to the big box for more drywall (I was also going to need some for addressing the old panel location), I decided to use the old drywall section I'd originally cut out. Actually it worked very nicely!

So I then addressed the old panel wall. I first ripped a length of 2x4 in half, and nailed each piece on the inside of the studs (I wasn't going to skip a good nailing surface this time). Then I insulated (batting only; no way to slip in rigid boards), cut a piece of drywall to fit (again, using a part of the old drywall from the new panel location -- just fit too nicely to bother with a new piece), and nailed it up.

Done for now. Mudding is next.

Oh, it's easy to attach nailing strips into studs using a framing nailer. Nice to have the right tools lying around from projects gone by...
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:39 AM   #104
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Something else that sometimes works is to put a piece of 1 x 4 between the studs on the flat against the drywall and screw the 1 x 4 directly to both edges of the offending drywall. You do need 3/4" of room of course, but you can usually force a 1 x 4 in against insulation.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:04 AM   #105
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Something else that sometimes works is to put a piece of 1 x 4 between the studs on the flat against the drywall and screw the 1 x 4 directly to both edges of the offending drywall. You do need 3/4" of room of course, but you can usually force a 1 x 4 in against insulation.
Great point. Even the way I re-did it, it still left too long a stretch of joint unsupported. Using a 1x4 strip secured on both edges would have worked better.

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