Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > Project Showcase

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2010, 08:42 PM   #16
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,793
Rewards Points: 2,138
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


It sounds like you're on the right path:

- The Heat Stop II is exactly what you need for this. It goes to show what purchasing at the "correct" kind of store will get you: good product & info.

- The reason I asked about climate is because of concern for freezing & frost in winter. Probably not a huge issue where you're at, but you may have some issues with standing water inside through time. I normally try to build these things with a solid concrete & firebrick floor with a drain in the center to grade. The drain also doubles as a fresh air intake, which can be very helpful in a deep firepit.

- I would definately make sure you have some concrete for the FB to bear on, as full depth FB will not "adhere" ver well to the block IMO. If you had purchased split FB, that may be a different story.

How do you plan (pattern wise) on laying the FB inside? With the tight radius you have, I would suggest either sawing them in half or setting them vertically as "soldiers".

jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010, 09:02 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
It sounds like you're on the right path:

- The Heat Stop II is exactly what you need for this. It goes to show what purchasing at the "correct" kind of store will get you: good product & info.

- The reason I asked about climate is because of concern for freezing & frost in winter. Probably not a huge issue where you're at, but you may have some issues with standing water inside through time. I normally try to build these things with a solid concrete & firebrick floor with a drain in the center to grade. The drain also doubles as a fresh air intake, which can be very helpful in a deep firepit.

- I would definately make sure you have some concrete for the FB to bear on, as full depth FB will not "adhere" ver well to the block IMO. If you had purchased split FB, that may be a different story.

How do you plan (pattern wise) on laying the FB inside? With the tight radius you have, I would suggest either sawing them in half or setting them vertically as "soldiers".
Thanks for the quick reply and the insight! I really appreciate the confirmation on the Heat Stop and your overall help and guidance. I had to rely on their recommendation since this is really my first masonry project. So thank you sir!

I was 'planning' to place the firebrick on the sides. I didnt think it would be too bad since they are only an inch longer than the block and the 8" block seems to form a decently smooth circle. They'll also be painted with a high temp black paint. I'll lay them out in a few different ways first to see what might work best. I'll also consider cutting them in half as you've suggested.

I do have one further question with regard to where to use the Heat Stop and where I can use regular Type S mortar. I know that I need to use the Heat Stop between each firebrick, but do I need to use it in the space between the FB and the cinder block, or could I just fill that in with Type S mortar once I've laid up all the FB? Also, I'm going to let the FB set and harden before I put the caps on... I want the cap to come up to the edge of the FB but not hang over into the pit (do to the heat). Do I need to use heat stop between the cap and the FB/Cinder Block wall, or can I use the Type S across the entire top?

Last question is if say I put the veneer on, and after a year I decide I'm unhappy with its appearance, how difficult would it be to chisel the veneer off without harming the rest of the structure so that a new veneer could be applied? I'm not going to apply it with the intention of wanting to change it after a year, but sometimes your taste changes or you just decide you dont like the look. As I said, Im kinda on the fence at this point on if I like the look of the veneer and I wont really know how well I like it until I get the flagstone 'patio' in to see how well it all comes together, but it did seem to be one of the more natural looking and better looking options that they had on their sales floor. It would be nice to know that I would have the option in the future to make the change if possible.
eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010, 10:07 PM   #18
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,793
Rewards Points: 2,138
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by eemichael83 View Post
Thanks for the quick reply and the insight! I really appreciate the confirmation on the Heat Stop and your overall help and guidance. I had to rely on their recommendation since this is really my first masonry project. So thank you sir!

You're welcome, and that's what this place is about, sharing knowledge. But I'm too young to be called "sir"!

I was 'planning' to place the firebrick on the sides. I didnt think it would be too bad since they are only an inch longer than the block and the 8" block seems to form a decently smooth circle. They'll also be painted with a high temp black paint.

If your using the "Jet Black" FB stain from Alsey, make sure to stir/shake the heck out of the can, as it has a very high solids content & settles to the bottom of the can.

I'll lay them out in a few different ways first to see what might work best. I'll also consider cutting them in half as you've suggested.

See what works for you asthetically. I personally like the brick in half meaning 4.5" by 4.5" by 2.5" thick. If you have something that you can put a cheap diamond blade into, you'll find that they saw very easily. Just make sure to wear a mask, as there is alot of silica in FB.

I do have one further question with regard to where to use the Heat Stop and where I can use regular Type S mortar. I know that I need to use the Heat Stop between each firebrick, but do I need to use it in the space between the FB and the cinder block, or could I just fill that in with Type S mortar once I've laid up all the FB?

Type S is fine behind the FB & at the top where they meet the cap.

Also, I'm going to let the FB set and harden before I put the caps on... I want the cap to come up to the edge of the FB but not hang over into the pit (do to the heat). Do I need to use heat stop between the cap and the FB/Cinder Block wall, or can I use the Type S across the entire top?

You won't have to wait long on the FB to harden, tas the Heat Stop II sets fairly quick & strong. I would actually suggest getting your FB damp before installing them so you have a little time with them.

Last question is if say I put the veneer on, and after a year I decide I'm unhappy with its appearance, how difficult would it be to chisel the veneer off without harming the rest of the structure so that a new veneer could be applied? I'm not going to apply it with the intention of wanting to change it after a year, but sometimes your taste changes or you just decide you dont like the look. As I said, Im kinda on the fence at this point on if I like the look of the veneer and I wont really know how well I like it until I get the flagstone 'patio' in to see how well it all comes together, but it did seem to be one of the more natural looking and better looking options that they had on their sales floor. It would be nice to know that I would have the option in the future to make the change if possible.
You shouldn't have much problem getting the veneer off of the block, other than the veneer may get destroyed in the process.

If the color of the stone is questionable now, you could always use a colored mortar to give the stone a whole different effect.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010, 10:23 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 4,338
Rewards Points: 2,212
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Is there a computer program you can use to design the fire pit the way you have it, with the fb you have? You'd be able to get an idea of how it looks before you do all the work.

Maybe even a landscaping program?
gma2rjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2010, 08:50 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
You shouldn't have much problem getting the veneer off of the block, other than the veneer may get destroyed in the process.

If the color of the stone is questionable now, you could always use a colored mortar to give the stone a whole different effect.
Thats good know, I really wouldnt be worried about destroying any old veneer just as long as the block and FB didnt get damaged.

I was kindof thinking about maybe using a black grout for use between the stone pieces... what are your thoughts? Would I be able to use that type of grout that comes in one of those caulk tubes or will I have to use a Type N mortar.. or do they actually have Type N mortar in a caulk tube? lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by gma2rjc View Post
Is there a computer program you can use to design the fire pit the way you have it, with the fb you have? You'd be able to get an idea of how it looks before you do all the work.

Maybe even a landscaping program?
Nope, I dont have an app for that. I think it will turn out pretty good though.


I got the small trench inside the pit dug and poured the concrete pad for the FB to sit on. I made it a little wider than necessary just to make sure I don't have to do it yet again!

eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2010, 10:34 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


It's been nice tracking your progress. Looks like you're also getting excellent advice! Please keep the photos of your progress coming.

I do have a follow-up to one of jomama45's suggestions: Is it too late to do something about drainage/ventilation? It's sometimes hard to get perspective from photos, but it looks like the firepit particularly after adding FB) would retain a lot of water in a hard rain -- which I think you get periodically where you live. I also like the concept of getting air coming in from the drain when a fire's going.

I imagine you could still dig underneath the current concrete and retrofit some kind of drain system, if you were strongly motivated.

Just wondering your thoughts....
Itsdanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2010, 11:15 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
It's been nice tracking your progress. Looks like you're also getting excellent advice! Please keep the photos of your progress coming.

I do have a follow-up to one of jomama45's suggestions: Is it too late to do something about drainage/ventilation? It's sometimes hard to get perspective from photos, but it looks like the firepit particularly after adding FB) would retain a lot of water in a hard rain -- which I think you get periodically where you live. I also like the concept of getting air coming in from the drain when a fire's going.

I imagine you could still dig underneath the current concrete and retrofit some kind of drain system, if you were strongly motivated.

Just wondering your thoughts....
Thanks for the comments! I will definitely keep the pics coming I was kindof thinking that the large Egg Rock in the pit would help with the drainage and airflow beneath the fire. It should elevate the firewood about 4" off the dirt. We do tend to get some hard rains every now and then but usually the ground is pretty dry and absorbs rainwater like a sponge.

Would there be any problems with what I was originally planning? What might you suggest as an alternative? Would it possibly be easier and a good alternative to dig the dirt out of the center of the pit a few inches deep and then fill it with large diameter rock so that the water collects below all of the brick and concrete? Or possibly just use a masonry bit to drill a few small holes on the low side... I dont think they'd be visible since I'm going to use sand to level out the seating area. Then water could drain into the sand in the seating area. It probably wont do anything for airflow though. I would think that air should be able to flow under the fire ok though with large rock beneath the firewood.

Last edited by eemichael83; 06-02-2010 at 11:24 PM.
eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2010, 12:08 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 324
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by eemichael83 View Post
Thanks for the comments! I will definitely keep the pics coming I was kindof thinking that the large Egg Rock in the pit would help with the drainage and airflow beneath the fire. It should elevate the firewood about 4" off the dirt. We do tend to get some hard rains every now and then but usually the ground is pretty dry and absorbs rainwater like a sponge.

Would there be any problems with what I was originally planning? What might you suggest as an alternative? Would it possibly be easier and a good alternative to dig the dirt out of the center of the pit a few inches deep and then fill it with large diameter rock so that the water collects below all of the brick and concrete? Or possibly just use a masonry bit to drill a few small holes on the low side... I dont think they'd be visible since I'm going to use sand to level out the seating area. Then water could drain into the sand in the seating area. It probably wont do anything for airflow though. I would think that air should be able to flow under the fire ok though with large rock beneath the firewood.
I'm definitely no expert with this! Just a humble DIYer that likes to wrap his brain around other people's projects (particularly ones I'd like to tackle myself some day).

I recall the huge rock you found when trying to level the ground. If you had one of those directly under the pit, it might impede drainage -- but it'd certainly also impede digging for a drainage solution, too.

One thing you could try, when the latest concrete's set up adequately, is to run water from a hose into the pit, and see how it handles the load. If the water drains away decently, then you're probably set. If not, you might need to consider drainage solutions.

The two I thought of:

1) Weep holes drilled horizontally through the base of the wall (similar to what you mentioned).

2) Put a drain in the middle by digging under the wall/foundation, and putting a drain pipe downslope from the pit, with the drain entrance in the middle of the pit. This sounds like what jomomma45 was suggesting. He also mentioned concreting the whole floor of the pit with this option (to keep sand from clogging the drain).

In your case, hopefully you won't have to consider options. But you might want to test now, before you go any further with the FBs...

Good luck!
Itsdanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2010, 09:57 PM   #24
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,793
Rewards Points: 2,138
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by eemichael83 View Post
I was kindof thinking about maybe using a black grout for use between the stone pieces... what are your thoughts? Would I be able to use that type of grout that comes in one of those caulk tubes or will I have to use a Type N mortar.. or do they actually have Type N mortar in a caulk tube? lol
There is NO way I can recommend going with a dark grout on here. It's far too dated of a look for me to recommend IMO.

No tubes for this job, just Type N or S, preferably pre-mixed for your convenience. I would stop by your masonry supplier to see if they carry a tinted pre-mix mortar, as some here are starting to carry a few pre-blended colors by Quickrete. Regardless of the name, I've been happy with the product so far.

The only other thing you need to grout is a "baker's bag" to install the grout. There is a secret "trick" involved in grouting with the mortar though. If you can keep a secret, PM me when you're ready for this part & I may let you in on it.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2010, 10:34 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
There is NO way I can recommend going with a dark grout on here. It's far too dated of a look for me to recommend IMO.

No tubes for this job, just Type N or S, preferably pre-mixed for your convenience. I would stop by your masonry supplier to see if they carry a tinted pre-mix mortar, as some here are starting to carry a few pre-blended colors by Quickrete. Regardless of the name, I've been happy with the product so far.

The only other thing you need to grout is a "baker's bag" to install the grout. There is a secret "trick" involved in grouting with the mortar though. If you can keep a secret, PM me when you're ready for this part & I may let you in on it.
lol, when I get to that point, I'll send you a PM
eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 09:56 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Yesterday I decided to take jomama45's advice and cut the bricks in half. I used a dewalt grinder with a 4.5" diamond blade. I had 52 bricks and it took around 3 hours to measure and cut them all. Today I decided to take a half day since it wasn't going to rain, and I laid the fire brick. Just like everything else with this project, it took a lot longer than I thought it would... around 6 hours. Here's the progress:



Not a perfect circle, I know... but close enough
eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 10:22 PM   #27
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,793
Rewards Points: 2,138
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Looks good to me.

FB and refractory mortar aren't the easiest to work with, but it looks like you found that water is your friend when it comes time to clean them.

Now's probably not a good time to tell you this, but there is a far easier way to mark those brick in half: FB are exactly twice as long as they are wide (and twice as wide as they are thick). You can simply set one FB perpendicular on top of another, flush with the edge, and trace the edge of the upper FB. Meaning you use the width of the upper FB to mark the lower in half. You could have marked all of them in a matter of minutes.........

Keep up the good work.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 11:39 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


^ Thanks

I actually measured out the first brick, and then used the cut piece from it as a template... still took a while to cut with the 4.5" blade though... I had to cut, then flip, then cut again to get all the way through. I didnt worry a whole lot about keeping the brick clean since I'm going to be painting them with the high temp black. Now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that I can pull off the veneer and the caps as decently as the rest!
eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 11:57 PM   #29
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,753
Rewards Points: 2,244
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Looking good! Well, the weekend is coming up, will we get to see more pics?
cocobolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 01:13 AM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 115
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Stone Veneer Firepit


Quote:
Originally Posted by cocobolo View Post
Looking good! Well, the weekend is coming up, will we get to see more pics?
Well I wont be able to work on this any Saturday, but possibly Sunday if it isnt raining. There has been a good chance of rain almost every day since i've started this project! You guys will be the first to know when I get started back on it via some pics of the finished job

eemichael83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to do where cultured stone veneer meets grass shleppy Landscaping & Lawn Care 5 09-03-2014 07:39 PM
Firepit made with cinderblock and stone veneer Jfuente08 Landscaping & Lawn Care 1 05-08-2010 05:48 AM
J-Weep / Flashing for exterior cultured stone veneer wall. Spud Building & Construction 18 08-31-2009 10:44 PM
stone veneer dinodon General DIY Discussions 7 07-01-2008 08:39 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.