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Stone Veneer Firepit

906K views 234 replies 40 participants last post by  shumakerscott 
#1 ·
Well I've recently started another backyard project... this one is a firepit. I was originally going to make it a nice stone one, but there really arn't any good stone yards near and the closes thing was a 'brick and block' shop. Since they are only brick and block, the closest thing they had to giving me what I want was a stone veneer. Unfortunately, it'll have to do. The plus side is that it will end up being a bit cheaper that real stone and it will be MUCH easier to lay.

So I received the materials today, and I'll be starting on this in the morning. The first thing to do will be to pour the footer. I'll probably let it set up for at least 24 hours before laying the block.

For the pit, I'll be using 8" 'half block' as the main portion of the wall. I've got 2-1/4 refractory brick (fire brick) for the inside of the pit, and finally the veneer will lay on the outer diameter against the block. I've also got some similar looking caps. The pit dimensions will be 3' inner diameter and 5' outer diameter.

I'm still debating on what to do as a seating area around the pit. I'm thinking that whatever I choose should be about a 5' wide path around the pit to allow plenty of room for chairs or whatever... this should make the diameter of the seating area 15'. I'm open to any suggestions, but I'm currently thinking of using the black plastic landscape edging around the perimeter, filling the area with a bit of sand, and laying some tan flagstone down. I might use some egg rock or creek rock in the open areas between the large pieces of flagstone and then fill in the remaining cracks with more sand. I'll probably leave them in loose and not fix them with a concrete mixture. I'll post pics of the progress... in the meantime, I'll be open to any feedback or suggestions as far as the seating area.
 
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#64 ·
Michael, things are looking good so far. :thumbup:

As for the cultured caps, that's not really uncommon for them not to accept the return, especially on non-stock accessories. Here, I can't even return stock material w/o a huge restocking fee.

Glad you found a deal at your local yard on the flag, that's actually a little cheaper than I get flag for here. Often times, folks just automatically think that the big boxes are cheaper w/o ever looking into it. It sounds like you not only got a better price, but more importantly, better value.

As for the coverage, I generally figure 80-100 sq. feet per ton for that thickness of flag. It really depends alot on the quality of stone that gets shipped to you. If you end up with a bunch of huge pieces that aren't condusive to the space, you may have a lot more waste.

Keep up the hard work, and find a way to put that dog to work in your favor! :laughing:
 
#101 ·
You know, for a young feller who was so impatient to get this done at the beginning you are doing one helluva great job!

I imagine by now, that you have a new found appreciation for stonemasons. Nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems.

If you keep this quality of work up in all that you do, you will have a house that you can be truly proud of.

I'm going to wait patiently as you work your way toward the end of this "Not-so-little" project.

Lots of us are watching quietly in the wings, and we are all hoping for your success. So good luck from me!
 
#102 · (Edited)
Wow I really appreciate that. I've put in quite a bit of hard work on it and it makes me happy that others can appreciate the work I've put into it and are enjoying the outcome. It wasn't really that I was impatient, but mostly that I completely underestimated how long something like this would take. My first project for the year was the addition to the deck and that only took 2 weeks which included doing all the landscaping and installing a watertight outlet under the old portion of the deck for the fountain. So I figured the pit and the patio would only take maybe 3-4weeks. I was way off.

"Nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems."- understatement of the year :laughing:

Hopefully you wont have to be much more patient... I got to work on the cap today and was able to cut up and lay down about 1/3 of it in only 2-2.5 hours. I think a full day (probably sunday) and I'll be able to have it done. I worked until it got dark out so I wasnt able to snap any pics.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Here is the area I'm working with for this project:


cocobolo,
Thank you for the tip. I actually was not able to get around to pouring the footing today and here's why:


Those are 5 gallon buckets for reference. I'm guessing that rock was about 4-4.5' long, about 2-2.5' wide and about 1.5' deep. I have no idea how much it weighed, but it was a whole lot.

Basically, I originally planned to level out the entire 15' circle seating area before outlining the inner and outer pit circles. BUT this rock was underneath. I dug and dug... and dug... the rock just kept growing. I finally got it moving with a lever but I could never actually move it from its hole... way too heavy. I even grabbed a pick axe and tried cutting it in half, but this was taking entirely too long. I probably wasted a good 3-4 hours on just this rock. I was able to shift the rock so it didn't sit quite as high, but because of this thing, I'll probably just work with the level that the ground is at now. It is really not too bad though. My guess is that there is maybe an 8" drop over the 15' from one end to the other.

Ivy,
I will certainly post pics of the veneer and the progress. Tomorrow I can take some pics of the veneer as it sits on the palette, but it probably wont be laid till the end of the week. For reference I'm using something called 'Quick Stack' in a 'Cedar Creek' color. Looks like this:


Hopefully it will take to the curved surface OK. BTW, in the couple of boxes of this stone veneer I got, I had about 1/3 of the veneer pieces broken in half. I was a bit discourage by this thinking they might be fragile. So I tried breaking one with another, and they are actually quite strong. It took several strong hits to even chip one. I'm guessing the busted pieces were from either a really hard drop of the entire box or maybe a QC issue. The place I purchased from was more than happy to give me a new box for about 2/3 of a box of broken pieces so I was pretty happy with that.

BTW, should I mix this quickrete (sackrete) in a paint bucket or something first and then pour it in the hole or is it really OK to just pour the mix in the hole and then pour the water in afterwards like it says on the bags? Also, what are the tolerances on getting the mix/water mixture correct?
 
#5 ·
The problem with simply pouring water on the concrete mix is that you don't necessarily get any kind of accurate mixing.

Most concrete products require a specific amount of water per cubic foot of mix. So really, the best thing to do is to mix it properly in a wheelbarrow first, then dump it in to your hole. It should say on the bag how much water is required for each bag. I think it is around 3 liters for a 55 lb bag.

Looks to me like you are going to have one heck of a strong base under there!
 
#120 ·
The cap looks absolutely fantastic Michael. :thumbsup: I'd be proud ot say I did the work.

The inside radius looks great, what did you do to finish off the edge of the stones?

BTW, on the ends where you were having problems (and for future reference for anyone else), you want to "butter" each stone with a small trowel to get a little mortar stuck to them first. As long as you don't use much force when bagging the rest in, or when jointing, they will hold fine.
 
#122 ·
Thank you very much :) For the inside, I cut the curve with the saw, then I took a regular hammer and chipped away at it to break up the smooth edge. I'll take a closeup pic or it tomorrow if it isnt raining.

That looks great
What did you use to coat the firebrick to make it black ?
I used some high temp spray paint. It is usually used for grills and stuff like that. Here is the stuff I used: http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=112
 
#165 ·
I haven't noticed any issues with ventalation or drainage. My fire pit is about 44" wide, so as long as I don't have a couple of tree trunks in there, my bundle of wood has plenty of air. Not only that, but it's only about 12-14" tall.

As for drainage - hasn't been a problem for me - it's just dirt below. We don't get torrential rains here in CA. Each night I use the fire pit, I use a garden hose to put out the glowing embers. By the next night, it's dry enough to use...
 
#192 ·
I googled this and there are a lot of people out there giving half-assed advice on how to go about this. Congrats on doing a good job. Any reflections, regrets, things you might have done differently? That might a good way to conclude this project thread.

I plan on doing the same but mine are still ongoing, even the downstairs bathroom is not completed, just on hold.
 
#194 · (Edited)
Any reflections, regrets, things you might have done differently? That might a good way to conclude this project thread.
Well having had the experience now, it would probably be easier to more accurately predict the amount of materials that I would need for this or a similar job. Because of how much slope the land had to it, a significant portion of the low side of the pit (chimney part) was actually covered with sand and then flagstone. I probably could have gotten away with a box or two less of the stone veneer. Since I also ended up filling the inside of the pit with a large amount of egg rock, I probably could have also gotten away with maybe half the fire brick and refractory cement and just used some half cinder block in the bottom half and then the fire brick on top for the top half. That would have cut the cost by $100+. I would have also 'liked' to have had about another foot radius on the patio. It is comfortably big enough now, but it would be nice to have that extra 1' all the way around the pit to pull the chair away further if you wanted or to have plenty of room to walk through with someone sitting there too, but that would have added back into the cost and the amount of time and work I would have had to put into it.

Also, as others had mentioned about half way through the thread, putting a drain in first may have been easier than drilling one after the fact. The drilled drain works great though, I've never had any standing water and we've had crazy amounts of rain here lately so no problems there. Since I've raised the fire up by filling the pit with egg rock, there is also no ventilation problems whatsoever. This isn't the reason I raised the fire though... I did that so that the heat could radiate outward. When I tried a couple of fires in the winter, the heat was mainly just above the pit. The fire was just a bit too deep in the pit for the heat to radiate outward.

One other thing worth noting is that the pit portion held up very well through the winter. No cracks at all in the mortar or veneer. The concrete base must have been sufficient. Not surprisingly, the patio portion did have some cracking in the joints. It still looks great, but the crack is there even though in most places its not noticeable. I expected this since the foundation is sand and it will swell when the ground or any moisture under there freezes and then settle.

BTW, I'm not actually 'finished'. I'm currently working on the walking path :)



I'm about 1/3 done with it. Like the pit, it is also a bit of a pain to dig for the rock and then get the rock to not wobble by shifting the dirt underneath. I've been putting down that weed blocking fabric and filling the voids with pea gravel.
 
#2 ·
Hi there,

If you got your footing poured today, could I suggest that you leave it a little more than 24 hours before you start to load it up.

I know the concrete may be hard, but it lacks much strength this early. Even 3 or 4 days makes quite a difference.

And was it necessary to add any rebar? Sometimes it isn't...all depends on how much load you will be adding and what the ground is like underneath.

Looking forward to seeing pics of each stage as you go.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the tips cocobolo. To address the rebar question from before, I was going to put a few pieces of 3/8" in there just as 'insurance' that it wont ever crack. Also, I didnt have a wheelbarrow and I didnt want to spend 40-50 bucks on one just for this, so I ended up using the two 5 gallon buckets. I'd fill one with the concrete mix while someone poured a little water in at the same time. I mixed it by pouring it in another empty 5 gallon bucket and just pouring them back and forth into the empty bucket and adding a little water if needed. It was pretty tiring and a little hard on the back but it did save me a few bucks. Fortunately the concrete wasnt setting so fast that it wasnt still workable by the time I finished with the 8 60lb bags. I didnt get the rebar in though... the mix was thick and I just felt like I was having to force it in too much and I didnt want to compromise the strength and the compactness of the concrete as it was. So I'll just have to cross the fingers on no cracking. On to the pics!

After spray painting the 3' circle and 5' circle, I dug out the trench for the footing:


Concrete poured and putting on some finishing touches. I think I got it pretty level, level enough at least:


IVY, here is what the stone veneer looks like before going on:
 
#8 ·
That definitely looks great.

In future, if you want to put some rebar in something like that, what you could do would be to bend the bar to the shape of the circle - then you put about 2" of concrete in, then add the rebar, then the rest of the concrete.

It doesn't look like you are ever going to have any sort of problem there, that's going to be pretty strong.
 
#10 ·
OK, let the concrete set up for several days and today was the first long day without rain so I got back on it. Progress was much slower than I thought! A large part of the time was spent having to hand mix the sand, mortar, and water every hour (~every 4 half blocks) in a 5 gallon bucket! A lot of mortar had to be used to since the half blocks had large gaps on the outer diameter. I filled these pretty well I think. Its already pretty hard and immovable :)







Also, I swapped out the veneer type that I was going to use with a different one. I'll be using the same color but I picked a veneer with smaller pieces; or at least with the large pieces, they can be turned vertically and it still look natural. The first veneer I picked had some pieces that were about 16" long and it would not form around the 5' circle without creating pretty bad corners and open gaps. The style of the old veneer also prevented me from being able to turn the pieces vertically... it would have looked kindof bad.

I've also decided that I'm going to go with the brown/tan flagstone as the seating area. I believe I'll use sand to level everything out and build some sort of very short retaining wall on the low side to hold the sand in. The on the sand, i'll place the flagstone. The flagstone is backordered for about 2 weeks though.

Hopefully with the long weekend I'll at least be able to finish the blocks and put up the refractory brick. I doubt I'll get to applying the veneer or the caps till next week.
 
#11 ·
Also, I swapped out the veneer type that I was going to use with a different one.

Good idea, I was going to suggest you do so. Those stone were far too long for the radius you have.

Hopefully with the long weekend I'll at least be able to finish the blocks and put up the refractory brick. I doubt I'll get to applying the veneer or the caps till next week.
What are the FB going to be sitting on? Do you have a plan for drainage inside the pit?

Make sure to use exterior rated (hydraulic set) refractory for your FB as well if you want them to last.
 
#14 ·
I'm in Bowling Green, KY. Wikipedia classifies our climate as 'Humid subtropical climate'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Green,_Kentucky

It says average lows in January reach around 25F. Of course it will occassionally get colder than that. I'm not really sure how to describe the type of soil here... my best guess would maybe be sandy loam? but I'm really not familiar with different soil types. Regardless, I want the thing to last.

The type of mortar they gave me for the firebrick is called Heat Stop II Refractory Cement. This is what they picked out for me to use at the local brick and block shop. Thanks for the help!
 
#15 ·
Finished up the cinder block wall. I also bought a couple more bags of quickrete to extend the concrete pad on the inside for the firebrick. Didnt get to that part yet but will hopefully tomorrow. After that, it will need to set up for a few days before laying the brick, I plan to take that time to try and lay out the veneer pieces to see how it will look and how they'll fit. I'm still a little kinda 'meh' on whether or not I like the veneer or not... the color just seems OK in the box. Perhaps it will look better outside in the sun all put together and after they've been rinsed off. We shall see. Here's the progress today:



It is surprisingly almost perfectly level. This was one of the biggest concerns I had before starting, was being able to get it level. Its only off by at most 1/4" across the 5' width, in most places it is right on :)
 
#16 ·
It sounds like you're on the right path:

- The Heat Stop II is exactly what you need for this. It goes to show what purchasing at the "correct" kind of store will get you: good product & info.

- The reason I asked about climate is because of concern for freezing & frost in winter. Probably not a huge issue where you're at, but you may have some issues with standing water inside through time. I normally try to build these things with a solid concrete & firebrick floor with a drain in the center to grade. The drain also doubles as a fresh air intake, which can be very helpful in a deep firepit.

- I would definately make sure you have some concrete for the FB to bear on, as full depth FB will not "adhere" ver well to the block IMO. If you had purchased split FB, that may be a different story.

How do you plan (pattern wise) on laying the FB inside? With the tight radius you have, I would suggest either sawing them in half or setting them vertically as "soldiers".
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the quick reply and the insight! I really appreciate the confirmation on the Heat Stop and your overall help and guidance. I had to rely on their recommendation since this is really my first masonry project. So thank you sir!

I was 'planning' to place the firebrick on the sides. I didnt think it would be too bad since they are only an inch longer than the block and the 8" block seems to form a decently smooth circle. They'll also be painted with a high temp black paint. I'll lay them out in a few different ways first to see what might work best. I'll also consider cutting them in half as you've suggested.

I do have one further question with regard to where to use the Heat Stop and where I can use regular Type S mortar. I know that I need to use the Heat Stop between each firebrick, but do I need to use it in the space between the FB and the cinder block, or could I just fill that in with Type S mortar once I've laid up all the FB? Also, I'm going to let the FB set and harden before I put the caps on... I want the cap to come up to the edge of the FB but not hang over into the pit (do to the heat). Do I need to use heat stop between the cap and the FB/Cinder Block wall, or can I use the Type S across the entire top?

Last question is if say I put the veneer on, and after a year I decide I'm unhappy with its appearance, how difficult would it be to chisel the veneer off without harming the rest of the structure so that a new veneer could be applied? I'm not going to apply it with the intention of wanting to change it after a year, but sometimes your taste changes or you just decide you dont like the look. As I said, Im kinda on the fence at this point on if I like the look of the veneer and I wont really know how well I like it until I get the flagstone 'patio' in to see how well it all comes together, but it did seem to be one of the more natural looking and better looking options that they had on their sales floor. It would be nice to know that I would have the option in the future to make the change if possible.
 
#21 ·
It's been nice tracking your progress. Looks like you're also getting excellent advice! Please keep the photos of your progress coming.

I do have a follow-up to one of jomama45's suggestions: Is it too late to do something about drainage/ventilation? It's sometimes hard to get perspective from photos, but it looks like the firepit particularly after adding FB) would retain a lot of water in a hard rain -- which I think you get periodically where you live. I also like the concept of getting air coming in from the drain when a fire's going.

I imagine you could still dig underneath the current concrete and retrofit some kind of drain system, if you were strongly motivated.

Just wondering your thoughts....
 
#22 · (Edited)
Thanks for the comments! I will definitely keep the pics coming :) I was kindof thinking that the large Egg Rock in the pit would help with the drainage and airflow beneath the fire. It should elevate the firewood about 4" off the dirt. We do tend to get some hard rains every now and then but usually the ground is pretty dry and absorbs rainwater like a sponge.

Would there be any problems with what I was originally planning? What might you suggest as an alternative? Would it possibly be easier and a good alternative to dig the dirt out of the center of the pit a few inches deep and then fill it with large diameter rock so that the water collects below all of the brick and concrete? Or possibly just use a masonry bit to drill a few small holes on the low side... I dont think they'd be visible since I'm going to use sand to level out the seating area. Then water could drain into the sand in the seating area. It probably wont do anything for airflow though. I would think that air should be able to flow under the fire ok though with large rock beneath the firewood.
 
#26 ·
Yesterday I decided to take jomama45's advice and cut the bricks in half. I used a dewalt grinder with a 4.5" diamond blade. I had 52 bricks and it took around 3 hours to measure and cut them all. Today I decided to take a half day since it wasn't going to rain, and I laid the fire brick. Just like everything else with this project, it took a lot longer than I thought it would... around 6 hours. Here's the progress:



Not a perfect circle, I know... but close enough :)
 
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