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Old 01-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #136
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Been busy hanging the insulation. Got over half of it done. Can really feel the difference in the basement tempature. A lot warmer then our current house is.

Will try to get some pics tonight.

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:03 PM   #137
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Here are some pics.

By herfrds at 2012-01-19


By herfrds at 2012-01-19


By herfrds at 2012-01-19


By herfrds at 2012-01-19


By herfrds at 2012-01-19


By herfrds at 2012-01-19
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:12 PM   #138
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Nice pictures! Did you have framing inspection yet? It appears you don't have any structural or solid wood headers over the windows to support the floor loads on the open-web trusses. I could be wrong.... looking back to your second post on page 1, the framers never used one there. I see only OSB nailed to a 2x framed cripple wall at the rim areas and a mud sill on the concrete. Hope I'm wrong or those windows may soon be inoperative as the loads above settle after moving in. Or am I missing something?
Gary
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:20 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Nice pictures! Did you have framing inspection yet? It appears you don't have any structural or solid wood headers over the windows to support the floor loads on the open-web trusses. I could be wrong.... looking back to your second post on page 1, the framers never used one there. I see only OSB nailed to a 2x framed cripple wall at the rim areas and a mud sill on the concrete. Hope I'm wrong or those windows may soon be inoperative as the loads above settle after moving in. Or am I missing something?
Gary
I could be wrong, but it looks like the trusses sit on top of the logs (and the window is also framed into them as well) The stud wall is mainly for running cables and insulating.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:27 AM   #140
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There is a treated 2x8 along the bottom of the pony wall.
On top of the logs there is a 2x4 that the trusses sit on.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #141
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I saw something the other day and wondering if anyone else has seen it or used it.
DriCore for the basement floor.
Here is the link.
www.dricore.com
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:00 AM   #142
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There is a treated 2x8 along the bottom of the pony wall.
On top of the logs there is a 2x4 that the trusses sit on.
Yes, only a 2x8 laid flat, face down as mudsill (anchors the framing above to the concrete wall below, non-bearing unless fully supported by the concrete below) will support hardly anything. You have floor trusses down there with two windows and no bearing header for them. They are rated at minimum, 40# per square foot; figure ½ the span from a window to the other bearing wall. 10’ span X 40# = 400# if 12” on center. Yours are 2’ o.c. = 800# maximum loading. Your windows will stick, the floor will sag, and now is the time to fix this….

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Old 01-21-2012, 01:49 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Yes, only a 2x8 laid flat, face down as mudsill (anchors the framing above to the concrete wall below, non-bearing unless fully supported by the concrete below) will support hardly anything. You have floor trusses down there with two windows and no bearing header for them. They are rated at minimum, 40# per square foot; figure ½ the span from a window to the other bearing wall. 10’ span X 40# = 400# if 12” on center. Yours are 2’ o.c. = 800# maximum loading. Your windows will stick, the floor will sag, and now is the time to fix this….

Gary
I'm with Gary on this one. I went back and looked at the earlier pictures. Where is the support above the windows. I should have seen that. dorf dude...
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:07 AM   #144
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it looked to me like there were header built into the logs and everything was resting on them (trusses and ceiling anyway). Seems to me like a header AND a log is plenty enough to carry the load around the window. However I am not a structural engineer and I very well may be wrong.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:36 AM   #145
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Gentlemen: I'm not quite sure I agree with you on this one...it's not as bad as it may appear on the face of things.

First, I would like to know if this was designed by a structural engineer.

Then I would like to see a close up of how the top of those floor trusses is attached. There are trusses which actually carry their load from the top and not necessarily from the bottom.

It is also possible that the outside pony wall will carry a substantial load providing there is some adequate fastening method at the top of the truss.

Additionally, that plywood floor adds considerably to the stiffness of that whole assembly.

I tried blowing up the pic in question, but I still could not quite see the fastening method at the top of the trusses.

If none of the above is correct, there is still an easy way to beef up the support above the windows.

Two layers of 3/4" plywood could be added vertically above the windows, right at the end of the trusses. Screwing and gluing these plywood strips in place would increase the support very substantially. Certainly enough to cover what appears to be only about a 4' window.

It is possible that there is something we are unable to see at the moment, so perhaps a series of close up photos will enable us to see whether or not the problem is as bad as it appears on the surface.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:42 AM   #146
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Correction on the window size, it's less than 4' perhaps 3'.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:17 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtitus07 View Post
it looked to me like there were header built into the logs and everything was resting on them (trusses and ceiling anyway). Seems to me like a header AND a log is plenty enough to carry the load around the window. However I am not a structural engineer and I very well may be wrong.
The upstairs windows have 2 rows of logs as headers. What we are looking at are the basement windows.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:48 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by shumakerscott View Post
The upstairs windows have 2 rows of logs as headers. What we are looking at are the basement windows.
Right, no problem with the top floor.

It would have been nice if the vertical 2 x 4's in that pony wall had lined up properly with the trusses. That would have given extra support. I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't.

However, it is still possible to add some additional 2 x 4's to that pony wall.

It's definitely not an unsolvable problem. And with only a 3' span it won't take much to fix.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:53 AM   #149
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My point, exactly. The windows should only be 2 inches or so higher than the exterior double-door R/O if it is standard height. Usually, the concrete is poured over the space above the door (and windows) which carries the loads. It was easier for them not to buck-out the door/window heads for concrete, but they should have angled the studs or thickened the sheathing....as you said.

Simple check, what do the plans show? Shorter windows with concrete over them? As over the door in post #2 and 4.
I'm guessing they didn't have the minimum height for egress below the window and yet go with a double-hung rather than casements....

Still need an engineered design fix and now is the time.
If those trusses are this brand, they are bottom supported, I checked that earlier...http://www.trimjoist.com/TrimJoistBroChure.pdf

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Old 01-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
My point, exactly. The windows should only be 2 inches or so higher than the exterior double-door R/O if it is standard height. Usually, the concrete is poured over the space above the door (and windows) which carries the loads. It was easier for them not to buck-out the door/window heads for concrete, but they should have angled the studs or thickened the sheathing....as you said.

Simple check, what do the plans show? Shorter windows with concrete over them? As over the door in post #2 and 4.
I'm guessing they didn't have the minimum height for egress below the window and yet go with a double-hung rather than casements....

Still need an engineered design fix and now is the time.
If those trusses are this brand, they are bottom supported, I checked that earlier...http://www.trimjoist.com/TrimJoistBroChure.pdf

Gary
Good morning Gary:

Thanks for that link, they don't have those trusses. If you look at the Trimjoist trusses, they all have that extra solid support at both ends of the truss. That's an excellent idea as it transfers the end load out further into the truss.

If this was being done up here in Canada (and I know it isn't, but...) we would quite likely form a recess, or pocket, at both sides of the window and door openings in order to provide room in the concrete wall to install the headers. That is pretty much the standard here. I'm aware that would lower the window height at the top by the depth of the header plus a 2 x 4, but I do believe they have an 8' clearance in the basement. Therefore that should not have been an issue.

Whether or not the builders stuck to the plans is yet another unanswered question, but a very good point.

I would still like the OP to post several close up pics because right now, we are purely guessing.

One more point about the Trimjoist trusses - which I believe are similar to other brands, they give information on how you can strengthen up the truss assembly which I think would be perfectly applicable here.

I am not disagreeing that the lack of header is incorrect, but we still don't know how the whole assembly was done.

I believe that the framing inspection was done (don't know when) as was the electrical inspection.

One thing that surprised me about the electrical passing was that the OP says they need access to the ceiling in the basement as they have junction boxes located in that ceiling. Once that ceiling is closed in that would no longer pass inspection. I do believe they want to have a removable type ceiling for the purpose of accessing these junction boxes, which would be acceptable.

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