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my kitchen reno - complete remodel (with concrete countertop)

887K views 312 replies 56 participants last post by  Knucklez 
#1 · (Edited)
if you like this project, you might like some of my others:

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=17525

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=18518

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=19861
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ok.. so i couldn't wait any longer on the old kitchen. water damage was getting too much, so i had to stop other projects and start this one.. and unfortunately its a kitchen, so this is painful.. so please be kind :)

who ever knew this old house needed so much repair? i didn't.. but really, has been a joy to fix. just stressful at times. not to mention depressing when you have to turn down fun events with friends/family so you can "reno the house" all the time.. ho hum..

so onto the kitchen.. the highlight of this kitchen is the concrete counter tops we're going to put in. i'll be documenting that progress AS IT HAPPENS so we'll both see how it turns out at the same time .. to quick link to the Concrete Countertops section CLICK HERE

the nice thing about concrete is that its not that expensive, so if it dosen't turn out - just smash it with a a sledge hammer, bury it in the back yard and pretend it never happened.
 
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#2 ·
went downstairs to turn off the water - a necessary early step. as i twisted valve closed it started to leak. :eek:

i hate these old valves.. i've replaced everyone one in my house that has leaked - which as been everyone that i had to turn off. i suppose i could just re-pack the valve, but i hate these valves. i like those 1/4 turn ball valves, they seem much higher quality.

in any case, the plumbing goes from this valve to a galvenized pipe that runs THROUGH the stairs.. then through a crawl space and up to the main floor kitchen. how rediculous is this? same with the galvenized drain..

you literally almost step on the plumbing walking down to the basement!

oh.. did i mention there is no vent? ya...its on the "to do" list
 
#3 ·
here's a pic of the countertops before the work really got started.

honestly, they were probably fairly high quality/expensive 20 years ago. they are melamine and chip-board, so not the highest quality, but still pretty nice. i'd like to replace them completely but that would be cost prohibitive.. so our plan is to paint them and add trim (wife's job). maybe after we win the lotto we'll upgrade to solid oak.

 
#4 ·
cleaned out all the cupboards.. removed the "lazy suzan" and slide out draws. these need a good cleaning, so i'm happy to remove them.

the dishwasher is planned to go on the right of the sink. and to the right of that will be the stove.

under the sink is planned to be open area, with shelves and baskets.. or something, i dunno, i don't decorate, i just do the work.

ripped off the countertop, and what do i find? mold.. even more glad i got into this project post haste.

 
#5 · (Edited)
a little bit of bleach in a spray bottle and steel wool should take care of that.

unfortunately its gunna get worse before it gets better.. much worse.

here is the plumbing. notice the bulging cabinets? that's from water damage. also more mold.. ok, to be honest, i knew the water damage under the sink was there for a while. but it was lower on the priority list.. but now it is gone as you'll see in the up coming pics.

i'm not sure if my wife is happy that its now gone, or that she's pissed that i didn't do this sooner. ho hum... as a famous canadian says "if they can't find you handsome, at least they can find you handy". i guess i'm really in trouble.. cause he never did give a 3rd option.


 
#6 ·
the blue styrofoam, no idea who put that there. was there since we moved in. it gets cold under there in the winter, maybe someone thought they would try to insulate with some lose piece of styrofoam without any tuct tape or anything.
 
#7 · (Edited)
now the sink and cabinets are gone. i'll have to rebuild them later with new material. the cabinet on the left there is going to stay, but i can see down at the bottom the wood box that the cabinet sits on is swollen. it must have seen some water too.. i'll have to remove it and see how much i can save.

the cabinet that used to be just to the right under the red bucket (future DW location) has been removed for cleanup purposes. its in decent condition (actually you can just see the corner of it in the bottom left side of the picture below). i am thinking of tucking the dishwasher in this cabinet. i'll have to see if it fits.. will get back to you on that.

 
#8 ·
here is a close up of the old plumbing.

see the galvanized drain? also to the right is the water supply, which is galvanized with a copper threaded pipe. there was no shut off valve here, it was located in the basement. in anycase, i cut out all the copper so the pipes stick straight up. this made it easier to remove the bottom of the cabinet.

 
#9 ·
looks like there is some water damage on the pine plank subfloor (even below the 1/4 chipboard subfloor).


there was a time when we were thinking of just paining the wooden floor. but i dunno.. this chipboard is not the greatest. its thin and in really rough shape. not sure if it will look good, even with 14 coats of white primer.

i'll have to talk to the wife about a floor replacement job. maybe if i pull the rest of the cabinets off the wall, i can quickly lay down some "paint grade" plywood? 3/4" thick?

what do you think, good idea? bad idea?

-off to bed now.. will post more in a couple of days. look'n forward to your comments :)
 
#10 ·
as it happens my wife got very sick over the last few days and was at the hostiptal and all that jazz. the nurse comes to the house for a status checkup and says that i need to boil these instruments on the stove for 15 minutes to sterilize.. i'm thinking.. crap.. i don't have a kitchen, never mind a stove!

so i bought me a hot plate from wallmart, nice GE double burner, and bob's your uncle. wife is all better now, and we can use the double burner to keep the food warm while hosting thanksgiving - with the food we make in our new kitchen! :thumbup:
 
#11 ·
so i notice some cabinets have water damage and some flooring..

the floor i have decided will need a good inspection. the chipboard is going to be thrown out.

looks like 3" wide tongue & grove pine under it..

i removed all the cabinets from the wall. this was harder than it looks because the 4" screws are monsters and the roberson heads where getting stripped. i ended up getting all of the screws up (after much effort!) except one which was too far gone to work with a screw driver. i tried to cut it out but just couldn't get the sawsall in there.

so i ripped the cabinet off the wall... :)
 
#12 ·
here is what i found in the corner written on the floor.

yes that's right.. there is an electrical wire running just under the floor. so they made a note, which was kind of them, to inform everyone not to put any nails here.

yup.. this is going to be removed and done right. might as well upgrade to GFCI while i'm thinking of it.

 
#13 ·
i moved the cabinets (except the corner one which was too large to get out the door) outside under the car port. they are sitting on planks of wood. ontop the wood i put some tarps. then i put the cabinets on the tarp. and then folded the tarps up and taped them in place. then i draped a monster tarp over the top. wrapped it in string to hold the tarp and weighed it down with some logs.

ps. that's the old counter top leaning up against the fencing..

pss. dad.. if you're reading this post and you want your tarp back.. sorry.. its in use now.. :)

 
#14 ·
I hate to add more to your plate, but since you have everything ripped apart, what about doing a copper repipe? It pains me to see that copper/galvanized connection. Looks like it is a direct copper to galvanized with no dielectric union. Bad. I am suprised it isn't more corroded.

We moved into a house 4 years ago that was turn key beautiful. The previous owners did an incredible remodel with lots of quality workmanship. But they didn't update the plumbing. Long story short, we had major leaking that caused a lot of damage and had to do a complete copper repipe. The house was beautiful on the outside, but very ugly on the inside. We are getting the house back into shape, but it has been a long process and probably will continue to be.

I look forward to seeing your progress and glad to hear that your wife is feeling better.
 
#15 · (Edited)
thx for the kind words, and your point is well made. the plumbing stuff is all coming out. this will be a pain in the a$$ because under the kitchen is a smelly crawl space (to be fixed in a future project). but, got to run the new wiring for the DW in that area anyway... so might as well bring some copper with me.

i have a sink and a dishwasher in this kitchen.

from the sink, looking down the drain, the order of connection of things would be as seen below

all plumbing of drain is 2" ABS and vent 1.5" black ABS. i chose ABS because the rest of the house is done with ABS.

the drain line runs back to the main 4" ABS drain in the house in the basement. the main 4" waste line is some 20 ft. away from the kitchen! so i will slope the 2" kitchen drain at 1/4 per foot, for a total slope of 5" (round up to 6"). when i get close to the 4" drain, i will use 2 x 45 (or a "long 90")to angle the 2" kitchen drain so it can connect with the 4" main waste which is below the kitchen drain.

tapping into the main house drain involves a 4" four-banded rubber clamp, and a 4"x2"x4" WYE to connect with kitchen drain (see picture below)




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see credit in fine print below!

 
#17 · (Edited)
here's a picture of the funky 1950's flooring.. oh, and see top right corner? they weren't kidding about the electrical under the chipboard subfloor... this wire must have been crushed good by the cabinets near the walls.

i can understand why they did this though. accessing the wall from the crawlspace is near impossible because the wall sits in the middle of a 18" thick stone foundation wall. and access from the top would be through the attic, but there is no attic access hole.. only other option is to run the wire along the ceiling, or floor. looks like they chose floor. doubt very much this is to code.. will have to be fixed.

 
#18 · (Edited)
this is cool... found a trap door. must have been for the original kitchen addition build. there must have been no access from the basement (there is a tiny hole now where the furnace has room for ducting).

also confirmed that the joists are 1.5" wide by 10" deep, spaning 12ft. should hold weight of concrete counter. wall foundation is stone, about 18". thick. in all, the concrete countertops (which weigh about 400lbs when done!) will have its weight distributed over a stone foundation and two joists along the wall with the window. along the other wall it will span over the same stone foundation plus many joists. in both cases, i believe there to be sufficient floor strength to carry the weight.

this will come in handy for access crawl space to do wiring and plumbing. :yes:

 
#20 ·
what? that's aspestos? i thought aspestos was for insulation.. not tiles. or are you speaking of the floor felt (grey paper stuff)?

or maybe just pulling my leg?...

:eek:
 
#22 · (Edited)
More information on asbestos: http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html

Asbestos Flooring: http://www.inspect-ny.com/sickhouse/asbestoslookB.htm

Don't panic!!

It's not the "end of the World". Do your research and educate yourself.
(Example: It takes alot of asbestos, over a long period of regular exposure to cause serious health issues. I am not saying that you should thro caution "to the wind", just that, if you did disturb some material, then learn what to do, to properly get rid of the rest of it.)

2 months ago, I tore out the 2nd floor (asbestos tiles) in my new (to me) 1930's farm house. EPA allows you, as a home owner to do your own removal. They ask that you follow the safety guidelines, especially, if it is exterior siding material.

(Just so you know; it's the Commercial, Public, & Multi-Resident Properties, that fall under a different "jurisdiction" and specific licensing, qualifications, checks, inspections, protocol, etc.....in terms of requirements for removal and control)
 
#23 ·
I don't know for a fact it's asbestos. I just know that alot of asbestos was used for decades in everything from plaster, floor glue, lineoleum, vinyl tiles, insulation and siding so the probability that your tiles are made of asbestos would be high. You can get these things tested very easily by sending them to a lab thru the use of a home testing kit.
 
#24 ·
thanks peeps, i'm not panicking. actually i was (briefly) trained in asbestos abaitment years ago. i just didn't know it was in floor tile.. all i ever saw was asbestos insulation around piping and also some flange gaskets.

agreed that labs can test, but i don't want to wait. i'll just assume that it IS asbestos and proceed accordingly. i think you might be right after doing some google research. this kitchen was remodeled in the 50's or 60's (based on galvenized plumbing and decore evidence). that was just at the peak of asbestos popularity...

anyway no worries here.. but removal of the felt will be a bit tough.. need to use water based product as sanding is definately a BAD idea.

how about removing felt with paint stripper?
 
#27 · (Edited)
found some good web info for my situation:
http://www.asbestos-institute.ca/buildings/tiles.html

i added some stuff, see purple text

Supplies and tools
  1. Broad, stiff-bladed wall scraper, or floor scraper.
  2. Utility or hook knife.
  3. Tank type vacuum cleaner with disposable dust bag and metal floor tool (no brush).
  4. Large size heavy duty impermeable trash bags (or closed impermeable containers) with ties, typaes, or string to tie shut, and tags for labeling.
  5. Hand sprayer or sprinkling can.
  6. Liquid dishwashing detergent or liquid wallpaper remover mixed with water to make a dilute solution (1 oz. liquid in one gallon of water).
  7. mask with hepa filter
  8. throw away clothing
  9. gloves
  10. 6mil poly and tuct tape to seal off the room
  11. plastic drop sheet to cover floor that is NOT being worked on (you don't want to step on the stuff and trail it around)
Complete removal of an existing adhered sheet vinyl floor covering
If complete removal is required, follow these instructions:

Reminder: Never sand an existing floor covering
  1. Remove any binding strips or other restrictive moldings from doorways, walls, etc.
  2. Make a series of parallel cuts 4 to 8 inches apart and almost through the backing, parallel to a wall.
  3. Start at the end of the room farthest from the entrance door, and pry up the corner of the first strip, separating the backing layer. Pull the top layer back upon itself slowly and evenly at an angle that permits the best separation and most of the backing and top layers will pull free. Remove this strip, gently turn it over and roll face out into a tight roll. Tie or tape securely and place in a heavy duty impermeable trash bag or closed impermeable container for disposal.
  4. Repeat the above on the next two strips but do not remove anymore than a total of three strips at this time.
  5. Remove the felt remaining on the floor in the stripped area by wet scraping. Wet scraping is done as follows:
    • Pour the detergent solution into the sprayer or sprinkling can.
    • Thoroughly wet the residual felt with this solution. Wait a few minutes to allow the solution to soak into the felt.
    • Stand on the remaining floor covering (not the felt) and use the stiff-bladed scraper to scrape up the wet felt. Re-wet the felt if it dries out or if dry felt is exposed during scraping. Pick up the scrapings as they are removed from the floor and place in a heavy duty impermeable trash bag or closed impermeable container. Scrape all felt from this floor area before proceeding further.
    • Repeat the above on the next series of strips. Do only one three-strip area at a time. Stand on the remaining floor covering or clean floor (do not stand on the felt) to scrape up the felt.
    • Repeat this operation until the felt has been removed from the whole floor. Close full bags tightly, and seal securely for disposal. Identify with a label stating "Caution *** Contains asbestos. Dispose in an approved landfill only."
  6. damp (not wet) mop the floor with throw away cloth.. i.e., use a "swiffer" or microfiber mop with sprayed solution on it.
  7. When the whole floor has been cleaned free of felt, let it dry and vacuum up with a wet/dry vac with hepa bag installed any dirt using the vacuum cleaner with the metal floor tool.

    Reminder: Do not dry sweep.
    Position the vacuum cleaner so that the discharge air does not blow on the floor being cleaned.
  8. Carefully remove the Hepa rated dust bag from the cleaner and place in a heavy duty impermeable trash bag or closed impermeable container for later disposal.
  9. When the floor is dry, it is ready to have a new resilient floor covering installed. Follow the floor covering manufacturer's instructions (or www.diychatroom.com) .
 
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