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Old 07-19-2010, 12:31 AM   #16
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Money Pit, The neverending story of my home improvements


Wife had to have a flower garden in the back yard so we built this, there was a rotted shed there but I dont have pics of that before we tore it down.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
The key issue with SE cables with unfused service entrance conductors { cable as well } the code do not have any limit on outside but once it get inside then the code do kick in most case most area will limit no more than 6 or 8 feet { few will stated 3 feet as well } but most of them will keep the unfused service conductors short as possible.

If you want to run entire SE inside the wall then you have to go with SER cable { 4 conductor type } and you have to put a main breaker right below the meter socket or side of the meter socket depending on what size it have.

Merci.
Marc
Yeah Marc, I was having a complete brain fart. I was under the impression that he had a main disconnect meter combo outside. I should have paid better attention.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:46 AM   #18
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Out of curiosity, why didn't you mount the panel flush in the studs and avoid using the back board?

Also, why didn't you bring the SE cable in under the meter and then run it thru the studs over to the panel? This way you wouldn't see it running along the house.

I didnt mount the panel flush because I dont plan on finishing the garage with drywall and I didnt want to loose all the knockouts on the sides of the panel for future circuits.

I also didnt want the SE cable run inside the garage from the meter to the panel as it would be "unprotected" in between the wall studs and I was afraid some tool/ladder might nick it eventually.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:52 AM   #19
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I also didnt want the SE cable run inside the garage from the meter to the panel as it would be "unprotected" in between the wall studs and I was afraid some tool/ladder might nick it eventually.
You're not worried about that happening outside? Kids and stuff?

To this day I can't understand why code allows that. You can't have a piece of romex exposed without protection but you can have a piece of unfused SE cable strapped around the whole house. I wonder what the fault current on that cable is?
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:45 AM   #20
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You're not worried about that happening outside? Kids and stuff?

To this day I can't understand why code allows that. You can't have a piece of romex exposed without protection but you can have a piece of unfused SE cable strapped around the whole house. I wonder what the fault current on that cable is?

The way the electrician explained it is that if the service cable insulation gets a cut or nick and you grab it, the hot wires are surrounded by the grounding wires so you would most likely grab the ground wires and be safe, this is of course unless the damage is severe and goes through the grounding conductors and into the hot wire insulation.

I would be more worried about the cable in my garage with all the tools hanging on the walls, (saws, hammers, axe, tree pruner) rather than outside. My child could just as easily grab the cable in the garage if it was routed in the wall as I dont have drywall and the studs are exposed, and worse he could grab a close by tool and more chance of having an accident than outside IMO.

Anyone else have any input on this?
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:13 PM   #21
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It's not just the electrical shock that you have to worry about, it's the arc flash.

If something cuts the romex in your garage, the fault current is limited by the branch circuit breaker, and even the main breaker.

If that SE cable gets cut, there is no protection, no fuse or breaker. The only thing upstream is a cutout which most likely won't be of any use. There is an extremely high amount of available fault current in that cable.

So if the SE cables gets damaged you can have a very large arc flash, an explosion that could melt skin very easily.

An example, the handlebar of a bike in which the rubber grip wore away on the end and the metal is exposed (my kids drop their bikes and this happens). The horizontal run of SE is at the right height in which a kid riding past it with said handlebar could get a little too close, cut into the cable, and have a VERY bad day.

That's just an example, it might not be realistic for your situation, but there are always risks. You never know what you're kids are going to start backyard wrestling and swinging aluminum ladders and chairs around

Your installation is code compliant, and that's my point. It seems that every year the NEC becomes less about safety and more about convenience and manufacturers lobbying for profit. IMO, that SE cable should be protected. When running romex perpendicular to the joists in a basement you need to put up some type of running board. So it's not off base to require some type of protection of SE if run thru the open studs of a garage.

I failed inspection because there was 5" of exposed romex running from the wall into the back of an under cabinet light in a kitchen. No one can honestly say that little bit of wire is more of a risk than 30 feet of exposed SE cable on a building.

Sorry for the rant, keep up the good work on the house!

Last edited by Proby; 07-19-2010 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:58 PM   #22
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Yeah, I don't like the unexposed wire outside...but it meets code

I would have moved the panel closer to the meter
Then run new wire as needed from the old location to the new location

Lots of nice work accomplished
I like the siding job -whats the brown "board" under each row ?
New windows & doors make a huge difference
I know they did on my house
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:09 PM   #23
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Yeah, I don't like the unexposed wire outside...but it meets code

I would have moved the panel closer to the meter
Then run new wire as needed from the old location to the new location
That, or I would have ran it thru the studs (most likely up high) and thrown a couple rips of plywood or sheetrock over it for some protection.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:40 PM   #24
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Lots of nice work accomplished
I like the siding job -whats the brown "board" under each row ?
New windows & doors make a huge difference
I know they did on my house

Thanks to this website I found this out by asking the same thing

http://www.diychatroom.com/f14/repai...e-stlye-20887/

Cant find it at the big box stores even though they sell the cedar shakes, have to go to a lumbar yard. This stuff is made in Canada and last year the factory went on strike, could not find it anywhere for months, ppl on craigslist were jacking the price double to triple the cost because of the poor supply.

Thanks for the input guys, if not for this website I likely wouldn't have tackled half of these projects.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:14 PM   #25
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Looks nice! You’ve done a lot of hard work. If you replace anymore siding, I recommend using building paper on the plywood sheathing: “Your local code may not require you to use felt or housewrap, but unless you live in an extremely arid climate — you need to use it. Typically, building paper is installed as soon as the sheathing is installed. Force of NatureMost of us live in climates influenced by rain and wind. During a storm, a thin film of water clings to windward surfaces. Porous materials, like unfinished shingles, stained wood clapboards, and masonry veneers soak up water. Non-porous materials like freshly painted wood, aluminum and vinyl don’t. But the film of water sticks to all siding products. As the wind’s speed and direction shifts, water moves up, down and sideways under the influence of air pressure. It moves from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. The area directly behind a wind-blown wall surface is at a lower pressure than its exterior face. This pressure difference works to suck the water inward through any hole it finds. I’ve stripped problem walls immediately after heavy rain to monitor rain intrusion and establish moisture profiles. It is perfectly clear that butt-joints, seams, holes, and siding overlaps are siphon points driven by air pressure, gravity and capillary suction. If there is no building paper, water will get wicked up into the wood sheathing where is often causes structural problems.” From: http://bct.nrc.umass.edu/index.php/p...tion-barriers/

You could remove a few inches around the window perimeter and install sticky window tape at the ply/window joint to stop any future water there.

After the new soffit venting and baffles, if your attic is still hot and the roof shingles show signs of premature life, you probably need more intake vents. If the pinhole venting as shown has 4.68 NFVA per foot of lineal depth (as across the front and back soffits), it’s not enough. You really need 9 NFVA per foot, or settle for all pin-holed with no solid panels. All holed would give 4.68 NFVAper soffit foot of run. (Your 1’ of holed + 24” of solid = 1.56 NFVA) http://files.buildsite.com/dbderived...rived92755.pdf
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...it-specs.shtml

You did a very nice job of matching the elevations of the shingles--- very professional looking.

Be safe, Gary
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:58 PM   #26
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Looks nice! You’ve done a lot of hard work. If you replace anymore siding, I recommend using building paper on the plywood sheathing: “Your local code may not require you to use felt or housewrap, but unless you live in an extremely arid climate — you need to use it. Typically, building paper is installed as soon as the sheathing is installed. Force of NatureMost of us live in climates influenced by rain and wind. During a storm, a thin film of water clings to windward surfaces. Porous materials, like unfinished shingles, stained wood clapboards, and masonry veneers soak up water. Non-porous materials like freshly painted wood, aluminum and vinyl don’t. But the film of water sticks to all siding products. As the wind’s speed and direction shifts, water moves up, down and sideways under the influence of air pressure. It moves from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. The area directly behind a wind-blown wall surface is at a lower pressure than its exterior face. This pressure difference works to suck the water inward through any hole it finds. I’ve stripped problem walls immediately after heavy rain to monitor rain intrusion and establish moisture profiles. It is perfectly clear that butt-joints, seams, holes, and siding overlaps are siphon points driven by air pressure, gravity and capillary suction. If there is no building paper, water will get wicked up into the wood sheathing where is often causes structural problems.” From: http://bct.nrc.umass.edu/index.php/p...tion-barriers/

You could remove a few inches around the window perimeter and install sticky window tape at the ply/window joint to stop any future water there.

After the new soffit venting and baffles, if your attic is still hot and the roof shingles show signs of premature life, you probably need more intake vents. If the pinhole venting as shown has 4.68 NFVA per foot of lineal depth (as across the front and back soffits), it’s not enough. You really need 9 NFVA per foot, or settle for all pin-holed with no solid panels. All holed would give 4.68 NFVAper soffit foot of run. (Your 1’ of holed + 24” of solid = 1.56 NFVA) http://files.buildsite.com/dbderived...rived92755.pdf
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...it-specs.shtml

You did a very nice job of matching the elevations of the shingles--- very professional looking.

Be safe, Gary

Thanks for the input.

The soffit material is made by Georgia-Pacific and has a 14 sq inch NFVA per linear foot, I cant locate the link to GP's website but here is a retailer one:
http://doitbest.com/Vents+for+vinyl+...sku-121363.dib


Its not the pinhole but rather the slotted type.

Not sure if any of the pics show but I did use window/door flashsing tape for all the windows, plus caulked under the window moutning flange, plus caulked around all the trim and shingels.

The Tyvek is a good idea and I thought about that after doing most of the residing. Im not too worried as the exisitng sheathing has lasted 46 years, most still in great shape, and with new siding and better paint/caulk now, should last another 40
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:54 PM   #27
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Great! Sounds like you did the research..... Keep up the good work!

Be safe, Gary
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:11 AM   #28
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Here is what I did with the soffiting at the front of the garage where the span was roughly 2 feet. Instead of trying to install a stringer nice and level with the front and rear channels I put a stringer across the rafters at the middle of the span and used heavy gauge drop ceiling wire to support each soffit panel. I was able to eyeball each one and they came out pretty level and even, no sag in the middle and the wire doesn't let you push the soffit up or down so the wind wont affect them.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:43 AM   #29
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The weather has been off and on with rain but I managed to get a few more rows of siding installed, the door flashed, and made a new soffit/eave end cap (not sure of proper name). I also stripped the paint on the rake boards and repainted them, I counted 3 coats of paint that I stripped off. That caustic paint stripper is nothing to mess around with!
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:52 PM   #30
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Well its almost 2 months and still working on residing but its almost done. I switched gears one day and installed a light fixture and medicine cabinet we had bought months ago off craigslist. The light went up easily, but go figure the medicine cabinet had a nice surprise like all prjoects do with this house We bought a surface mount cabinet. But once we took off the mirrior and trim from the wall there was a nice big hole in teh wall, seems a recessed cabinet once existed here...SO what should have been a quick job turned into several hours of sistering in studs and replacing some drywall so we could mount the new cabinet. It ended up looking nice, just need to mud and paint above the cabinet where you can see part of teh repair.
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