Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > DIY Repair > Project Showcase

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-08-2013, 01:59 PM   #7441
Jack of all - master none
 
hyunelan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SW Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,214
Rewards Points: 514
Default

Gulf Island Building.


I was reading through, scrolling post by post thinking "this screen project doesn't seem THAT bad." Then I saw this picture of all the wood to be cut:



and almost threw up. That is a LOT of cutting. I see why you didn't want to tackle that by hand!

hyunelan2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:55 PM   #7442
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
Say something Keith, speak to me, are you there? Good grief talk about fouling things up, I just banned Keith, talk to me buddy, are ya back yet?
Hi there Jim...I was pretty sure I knew what had happened. There was that post from some Asian website that you were after and I posted right after he did and used the "ban" sign from the smilie list.

I thought it was quite funny actually...I knew you'd get it figured out right away Jim.

Thanks for that. No harm done!
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:59 PM   #7443
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hyunelan2 View Post
I was reading through, scrolling post by post thinking "this screen project doesn't seem THAT bad." Then I saw this picture of all the wood to be cut:



and almost threw up. That is a LOT of cutting. I see why you didn't want to tackle that by hand!
Yep, there's a few pieces to do this job. Those little kumiko are only 3/8" by 1/2", so the joints are very small.

All the spots where the kumiko connect to the frames will need to be cut by hand, so that's going to take awhile. If I can do one frame every day I should be done in a week or so. 26 mortise and tenons for each frame.
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #7444
Ole Wood Worker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lookout Valley, Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 7,552
Rewards Points: 2,290
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Sorry buddy, I feel so..., I will try to do better.
__________________
New members: Please consider adding your location to your profile.

Jim
BigJim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:39 PM   #7445
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


It's high time the new water tank gets done, otherwise before you know it, we'll be out of the rainy season.

Today I rounded up a few bags of sawdust and planer shavings to spread on the ground inside the tank area. The idea being that it would cover up any small sharp rocks that I may have overlooked when trying to clear the ground.
Attached Thumbnails
Gulf Island Building.-tank-sawdust.jpg   Gulf Island Building.-tank-sawdust-2.jpg   Gulf Island Building.-tank-sawdust-3.jpg  
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cocobolo For This Useful Post:
BigJim (03-08-2013)
Old 03-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #7446
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


After I got the sawdust all spread out, I found a bag of fibreglas pink in one of the woodsheds and I thought I would add that next.

That didn't cover the whole area, so it needed some Roxul to cover the inside area of the tank.
Attached Thumbnails
Gulf Island Building.-tank-fglass.jpg   Gulf Island Building.-tank-fglass-2.jpg   Gulf Island Building.-glass-roxul-ohead.jpg  
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/

Last edited by cocobolo; 03-08-2013 at 10:51 PM.
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:47 PM   #7447
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


And to top it all off, my rummagings through the shed unearthed a piece of pond liner which fit the bill perfectly. No idea where it came from, as it is different from the other liners I have here. But beggars can't be choosers, so...
Attached Thumbnails
Gulf Island Building.-tank-liner.jpg   Gulf Island Building.-tank-liner-2.jpg  
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:29 PM   #7448
Ole Wood Worker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lookout Valley, Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 7,552
Rewards Points: 2,290
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Keith, do you have straps or cables to hold the tank walls in or have you devised a way of your own to hold all that pressure?
__________________
New members: Please consider adding your location to your profile.

Jim
BigJim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #7449
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
Keith, do you have straps or cables to hold the tank walls in or have you devised a way of your own to hold all that pressure?
Jim, I'm hoping this will work something like a small swimming pool. I have the 14 sections pretty well nailed together using galvanized spikes.

The fact is that most of the weight bears right on the ground.

If my memory serves me, I think the tank can hold up to 25,000 pounds of water. The maximum side thrust arrives at about 1/3 the way up from the bottom of the tank. I don't know what portion of the weight actually pushes outwards, but when it is divided among 150 square feet of wall area and about 112 square feet of ground it shouldn't be that much.

Let's say, for example, that 1/3 of the weight is pushing sideways, that works out to just over 50 lbs per square foot against the walls.

I can always add more nails if I get nervous.
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 04:17 PM   #7450
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 209
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cocobolo View Post
Jim, I'm hoping this will work something like a small swimming pool. I have the 14 sections pretty well nailed together using galvanized spikes.

The fact is that most of the weight bears right on the ground.

If my memory serves me, I think the tank can hold up to 25,000 pounds of water. The maximum side thrust arrives at about 1/3 the way up from the bottom of the tank. I don't know what portion of the weight actually pushes outwards, but when it is divided among 150 square feet of wall area and about 112 square feet of ground it shouldn't be that much.

Let's say, for example, that 1/3 of the weight is pushing sideways, that works out to just over 50 lbs per square foot against the walls.

I can always add more nails if I get nervous.
Keith, I think that you might be underestimating the forces involved here. I'm not sure how tall those walls are but they look like 4 feet. If so the water pressure at the base (pushing in all directions, including out) will be 250 lb/square foot. one third of the way up it will be 166 pounds per square foot. and you *multiply* by the total area, not divide. Your walls are going to be containing a *lot* of force. I'd be pretty nervous depending on nails to hold it together.
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 07:25 PM   #7451
Ole Wood Worker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lookout Valley, Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 7,552
Rewards Points: 2,290
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Gulf Island Building.


I haven't dealt a lot with water like that but I have concrete and it is just amazing how much pressure there is on the walls, I was just thinking along those lines. Personally I would be a little leery of nails to hold the water in like that but you know way more than I do about things like that.
__________________
New members: Please consider adding your location to your profile.

Jim
BigJim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #7452
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A Squared View Post
Keith, I think that you might be underestimating the forces involved here. I'm not sure how tall those walls are but they look like 4 feet. If so the water pressure at the base (pushing in all directions, including out) will be 250 lb/square foot. one third of the way up it will be 166 pounds per square foot. and you *multiply* by the total area, not divide. Your walls are going to be containing a *lot* of force. I'd be pretty nervous depending on nails to hold it together.
You are correct in assuming the walls are 4 feet tall.

OK, I'm more than willing to be corrected on the pressures. I kind of doubt that the tank will ever be 100% full, although it could happen. So I suppose I should plan for that scenario.

The previous tanks, which were square, did indeed bow out somewhat on the sidewalls. However, the bowing out was not at the very bottom of the tank, but part way up the walls. The inside measurements on the old tanks were 10' by 10' by 5' high, or 500 cubic feet. Completely full, they would have contained 31,215 lbs of water each. They succumbed to rot, not nails pulling out.

It looks like you have taken a one foot square area multiplied by 4 feet high to get your water weight, is that right? That would certainly be right about 250 pounds. I think the weight of the water, based on a full tank, would decrease by a hair over 2% for every inch of rise, 48" being very close to 2% per inch. Let's call it 5 lbs per inch of rise.

Now I'm going to comment on Jim's post about the weight of concrete in forms, about which I do have some knowledge.

We'll get this worked out one way or t'other.
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cocobolo For This Useful Post:
BigJim (03-09-2013)
Old 03-09-2013, 09:05 PM   #7453
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
I haven't dealt a lot with water like that but I have concrete and it is just amazing how much pressure there is on the walls, I was just thinking along those lines. Personally I would be a little leery of nails to hold the water in like that but you know way more than I do about things like that.
Typical concrete weighs around 140 lbs per cubic foot, which is something more than double the weight of water, at 62.43 lbs per cubic foot.

Not only that, but add to that the force added when the concrete vibrator does its' work and you have some substantial pressures building up. And let's face it, many concrete pours can easily be 8 feet tall or more, so we are talking about a huge amount of weight here.

Something we learned in carpentry school is that the maximum pressure when a concrete wall is being poured is NOT right at the bottom of the wall, as you would suspect. It is 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. This is why we usually go around a basement form (for example) in two foot lifts. It lets the first batch get a head start on setting up before you get all the weight in.

Now, whether or not this applies with water as well I really don't know. Just going by the bowing on the old water tanks it might indeed be the case. I'll see what I can dig up about these pressures.

Your turn.
__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #7454
Ole Wood Worker
 
BigJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lookout Valley, Chattanooga, Tennessee
Posts: 7,552
Rewards Points: 2,290
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cocobolo View Post
Typical concrete weighs around 140 lbs per cubic foot, which is something more than double the weight of water, at 62.43 lbs per cubic foot.

Not only that, but add to that the force added when the concrete vibrator does its' work and you have some substantial pressures building up. And let's face it, many concrete pours can easily be 8 feet tall or more, so we are talking about a huge amount of weight here.

Something we learned in carpentry school is that the maximum pressure when a concrete wall is being poured is NOT right at the bottom of the wall, as you would suspect. It is 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. This is why we usually go around a basement form (for example) in two foot lifts. It lets the first batch get a head start on setting up before you get all the weight in.

Now, whether or not this applies with water as well I really don't know. Just going by the bowing on the old water tanks it might indeed be the case. I'll see what I can dig up about these pressures.

Your turn.
Keith I have poured walls up to 10 and 12 feet tall, you are right you have to pour in segments or you will have a blow out. I never liked that kind of work. Water doesn't put nowhere the pressure as concrete. I was just thinking about the water deal, think Mississippi River, it is close to a mile wide in Memphis, when the river flooded they would sand bag, (not at Memphis but further north) that is a lot of water to hold back, it always blew my mind that those few sandbags could hold the river but they did. So thinking like that, no way can water and concrete be compared, like I was thinking earlier. See I told you you were way smarter than me.
__________________
New members: Please consider adding your location to your profile.

Jim
BigJim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 12:06 AM   #7455
Member
 
cocobolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Shuswap, B.C., Canada
Posts: 6,674
Rewards Points: 2,086
Default

Gulf Island Building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
Keith I have poured walls up to 10 and 12 feet tall, you are right you have to pour in segments or you will have a blow out. I never liked that kind of work. Water doesn't put nowhere the pressure as concrete. I was just thinking about the water deal, think Mississippi River, it is close to a mile wide in Memphis, when the river flooded they would sand bag, (not at Memphis but further north) that is a lot of water to hold back, it always blew my mind that those few sandbags could hold the river but they did. So thinking like that, no way can water and concrete be compared, like I was thinking earlier. See I told you you were way smarter than me.
I never even thought about sandbags, but you're right, they do seem to do incredibly well in flood situations.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around just how much outward pressure there might be. And to that end I was thinking about those above ground swimming pools with 4 foot high walls. We had one at a house over in North Vancouver many years ago, and I think the walls were just some thin sheet metal screwed onto some flimsy square sheet metal posts. But somehow they seemed to hold up.

Maybe I will double up on the nails and see if that works.

__________________
Just an old guy messin' with bits of wood...
...the friendliest thread on the site! Come on by.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f49/gulf-...uilding-34958/
cocobolo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
glue down hardwood flooring along gulf coast sbmcclean@sbcglobal.net Flooring 6 12-21-2008 01:55 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.