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Old 01-20-2013, 05:08 AM   #7351
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Gulf Island Building.


Here's the greenhouse walls in frame from the back. The long wall will face due south.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:10 AM   #7352
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Gulf Island Building.


Here you can see two of the inner end walls and one outer wall. The space between the two sets of walls should show, it will be 3 1/2".
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:25 AM   #7353
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Wow, that is going to be better than I had envisioned, that is something I always wanted to do but just never did. This is going to be a neat build. Just one question for now, is your floor going to be moisture proof or is the moisture allowed in the house? That would seem to be uncomfortable to me.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:08 PM   #7354
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Hi Jim, I tried adding a couple more pics in the wee hours, but the site went down.

As to the moisture, the pool liner is actually a sealed giant bag. There are water inlets and outlets to admit and exit the hot water, which is a continuous type loop. In the summer time, there should be no need to use this part of the heating system. With the bag being sealed, there should be no moisture from that source. In fact, it isn't going to surprise me if the house needs extra humidity in warm weather. A good source of this might come from the solar greenhouse.

I'm not aware that this has actually been done before for a whole house and with a full length greenhouse, so it's likely going to take a little experimentation to balance things out.

Pic of the second outer end wall in place, clearly showing the height difference between the two inner and outer walls.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #7355
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Here's the inner back wall going in. All nicely partly paneled with some kind of exotic veneer. I found an old box with 50 square feet of veneer inside. Since I don't remember ever having used any before I figured this might be a good time.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:13 PM   #7356
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Last pic in the opening round. This is the outer back wall in place which completes the main house wall framing.

Now, if i can just find that lazy insulation crew, we'll see if some of the insulating can be done today!
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:53 PM   #7357
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This is really cool Keith.

Will there be windows in the wall between the house and greenhouse - other than the clerestory windows above? In the dead of winter it might be kind of nice to have the scent of warm earth and plants coming into the main living space.

Barb
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:03 PM   #7358
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Yes indeed. The lower 4 feet of that wall will be closed, but most of the higher part will be glazed. So the entire house area will be bathed in natural light.

I have found a double walled polycarbonate product that seems like it will fit the bill and I'm leaning toward using that instead of glass.

That greenhouse will be warm enough all year to grow plants in, so there should be no shortage of fresh smelling air.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:08 PM   #7359
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Another so-so sunset last night. And once again it was on the wane before i spotted it. I let Barb pick out her favourite from the ones I took so this is what you get!
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #7360
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Fresh green beans & tomatoes in the winter.... no can opener required .

Would you buy just the polycarbonate and build the frames yourself?
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:32 PM   #7361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gma2rjc View Post

Would you buy just the polycarbonate and build the frames yourself?
I would use the framing of the walls as the window frames. The beauty of polycarbonate is two fold. Firstly you can cut it with a saw so it is easy to fit to whatever space you have. Secondly it is very light weight and highly resistant to breakage. So things like hail won't do any damage.

The clerestory windows would be quadruple glazed (two layers of the double polycarb) with the extra possibility of using fitted foam boards in the event of extreme cold. You know, the kind they get down in Hastings, Nebraska.

Polycarb also comes in either clear or several different tints. And to top it off it is less expensive than using glass. Seems to me like a win-win-win situation.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:42 PM   #7362
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The clerestory windows would be quadruple glazed (two layers of the double polycarb)
What's your plan for preventing the build up of muck between the panes?

With thermopane windows, it's pretty easy to tell when you have one in which the inner seal is blown, because a film accumulates between the panes which is impossible to clean. You can also get moisture condensing between them at times. Seems like a home grown thermopane like you describe would be susceptible to this in spades.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:23 PM   #7363
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What's your plan for preventing the build up of muck between the panes?

With thermopane windows, it's pretty easy to tell when you have one in which the inner seal is blown, because a film accumulates between the panes which is impossible to clean. You can also get moisture condensing between them at times. Seems like a home grown thermopane like you describe would be susceptible to this in spades.
Good question. I have many such windows in the house here at the present time, however they are all glass as opposed to the polycarb. Thus far, it has been my experience that if a window will allow moisture to enter, that it can also exit. That may not be the case with a factory sealed unit, which usually has some sort of hollow metal strip between the edges of the glass panes. This, in turn, seems to be sealed with some abominable black goop which is damn near impossible to remove.

I have had exactly the same experience as you describe with factory sealed windows. Once the moisture gets in, it doesn't want to leave. With all the wood framed windows I have now, that doesn't seem to be the case. Yes certainly some moisture will appear from time to time. It seems to be affected by the temperature of the air in the unit itself. Sometimes at the end of a warm summer day condensation will appear. After sundown it disappears. This is pretty much the opposite of what I would expect, but that's what happens. I have just done a quick check of all 91 windows here and none of them are showing any sign of moisture.

I would not expect a wood framed window to prevent air borne moisture to get between the panes. The wood itself will likely allow some moisture to get through. As time progresses and the wood becomes ever drier, the walls of the wood cells actually get harder and more resistant to the passage of moisture.

In any event, whatever happens, happens.

Something else I just remembered...with the tempered glass panes from patio doors and the like, once that glass gets moisture inside it does indeed get some sort of film on it. And even when you take them apart, it will not come off no matter what you try.

I had a long talk with Dr. Bill Weller - a retired physics prof from the local university - about just this, but he didn't know what would cause this film or why it seemed to be impossible to remove.

I think it must have something to do with the tempering process which in some way alters the surface of the glass itself, putting it under tension. I have never seen this happen (the film) with untempered glass.

If you ever come up with the answer to that, I'd love to be the first one to know what it is.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:34 PM   #7364
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Quote:
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Good question. I have many such windows in the house here at the present time, however they are all glass as opposed to the polycarb.
Do I take that to mean that you've built your own double glazed windows using wood frames vs using a factory sealed double pane?

Interesting observation about the temped glass window. I've observed this film in my own sliding glass door, which likely was tempered, although I didn't separate the panes after I replaced the door. I have to say though that, if ire recall correctly, I've also see a similar film between the panes of a bedroom window with a ruptured seal. Presumably that one would have been just standard glass, although I didn't break the pane to see how it shattered.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:42 PM   #7365
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Do I take that to mean that you've built your own double glazed windows using wood frames vs using a factory sealed double pane?

Interesting observation about the temped glass window. I've observed this film in my own sliding glass door, which likely was tempered, although I didn't separate the panes after I replaced the door. I have to say though that, if ire recall correctly, I've also see a similar film between the panes of a bedroom window with a ruptured seal. Presumably that one would have been just standard glass, although I didn't break the pane to see how it shattered.
Yes, all the windows in the house are wood framed. There are a few in the small original cabin with factory made units. I think one of them has a broken seal.

You can tell if the glass is tempered by looking for the little mark in one corner of the glass. Just checked on one here and it has quite a bit of information. Has the name, plus the ANSI number, glass thickness and a few other small notes. It's actually the biggest marking I have seen.

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