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Old 12-22-2010, 11:21 PM   #4246
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ahh ok .,

Let me throw two you tube of our French Christmas song the first one is christmas verison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejMvu...eature=related


the second one is for the Jiggle bells in French

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-QLDqatEjY


Enjoy it

Merci.
Marc
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:30 PM   #4247
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This may be an appropriate time for me to post a continuation to my earlier post # 4131 (Feel Good) referring to my son-in-law and his recent return to Iraq.

A lot of us (me especially) don't hesitate to take shots at all of the big box stores at various times for various reasons.

Well today I went to my local Menard's Home Center here in Hastings Nebraska and I began to check out with a huge arm full of candy to send to my son-in-law and his (friends) in Iraq. The early a.m. cashier who is also an assistant store manager asked me if I was having a huge sweet tooth. I told her I was buying all that candy to send to Iraq.

She asked me if I could wait a few minutes while she checked out the few people behind me in line and of course I did.

She finished with those customers and then she went to her locker, retrieved her purse, and pulled out several store coupons and store credits and store gift cards she had been hording.

She handed them to me then told me now I could go back and check out. This boiled down to about a thirty dollar contribution to my purchase of candy to send to Iraq.

All I can say is a big huge:

THANK YOU
to CAROLYN at the HASTINGS NEBRASKA MENARD'S STORE.

I certainly appreciate your kindness.

I enclosed a letter in the box so that the soldiers on the receiving end would know where the candy came from.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:47 PM   #4248
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Bud...that's wonderful. I have to wonder just how many other people would like to help out if they were just given the opportunity.

A pretty nice way to say Merry Christmas to your guys over there.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:02 AM   #4249
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I can truly say that this is the greatest bunch of folks I have had the pleasure to associate with. I will second that, Bud flat out knows his trade and really did help me a lot when Judy and I installed our kitchen floor. Bud you have a kind and caring heart and we will keep your son-in-law in our prayers for a safe return home.

Now as for my good friend Keith, I can not put into words how you have helped me. You are truly a friend indeed. That had to take a good while to go back over your thread and collect all of the folks who have come to enjoy your thread. Your thread has been an adventure and continues to be each day. It is us who should thank you for this adventure you have allowed us to be present and witness each day, you sure have enriched our lives more than you know. You have a heart of gold buddy.

From Judy and myself we wish you all the most wonderful Christmas of all times.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:07 AM   #4250
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I can truly say that this is the greatest bunch of folks I have had the pleasure to associate with. I will second that, Bud flat out knows his trade and really did help me a lot when Judy and I installed our kitchen floor. Bud you have a kind and caring heart and we will keep your son-in-law in our prayers for a safe return home.

Now as for my good friend Keith, I can not put into words how you have helped me. You are truly a friend indeed. That had to take a good while to go back over your thread and collect all of the folks who have come to enjoy your thread. Your thread has been an adventure and continues to be each day. It is us who should thank you for this adventure you have allowed us to be present and witness each day, you sure have enriched our lives more than you know. You have a heart of gold buddy.

From Judy and myself we wish you all the most wonderful Christmas of all times.
Many, many thanks Jim.

Now, for those of you who don't know...Jim was kind enough to send me a gift - right out of the blue - which has proven to be extremely useful. In fact, I couldn't do without it. It blew me away. I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:41 AM   #4251
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Many, many thanks Jim.

Now, for those of you who don't know...Jim was kind enough to send me a gift - right out of the blue - which has proven to be extremely useful. In fact, I couldn't do without it. It blew me away. I'll just leave it at that.
I know this is the internet and a person can't say the things he wants to as there are many people who would try to take advantage of those with a kind heart so I can't tell of the kind deeds this gentle man has done. Judy and I have many friends all over the world, literally, but I will say that Keith is right at the top of all our true friends.
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:47 PM   #4252
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A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS to you Keith and to Mrs. cocobolo and everyone else here on this thread.

And I wish you all the very best in 2011.

Is Bridie going to have a gift from Santa under the tree?

Bud, thanks for passing that story along to us. It's nice to hear about the good things that people do for each other.

Barb

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Old 12-24-2010, 12:41 AM   #4253
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...and a Merry Christmas to oh'mike as well...

thanks for dropping by.
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:36 PM   #4254
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Hope everybody is enjoying the Season...

All the best of wishes and good health for the next year...
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:57 PM   #4255
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Keith,

Fascinating thread. I stumbled across this a couple of days ago searching for something entirely unrelated, and I've spend fairly large portions of the last few days reading through from the beginning. I'm in awe of your craftsmanship, ingenuity and industry. Very interesting project. I'm in the early planning stages of building a cabin on remote lake in Alaska, so I'm particularly interested in your methods of solo building and building in a remote location. Everything will either have to come in by air or on a snowmobile.

Some of the things you've written have piqued my curiosity as they're related to issues I've been mulling over.

In post 3547you made some offhand comments about metal roofing which may not be particularly significant, but I'm wondering what was behind them. I'm considering metal roofing for my cabin, although in some ways asphalt shingles would be more convenient. I've worked with shingles (but not with metal roofing), I can install them solo, and I could transport them in my own floatplane vs having to charter a much larger plane to fly in the metal roofing panels. However, in heavy snow country, a metal roof sheds snow much easier which is a concern for a cabin that will not be attended continuously. I guess my current thinking is that, I'd rather build an asphalt shingle roof, but I'd rather have a metal roof and I'm still trying to decide which is more important. I'm interested in your thoughts on metal roofing.

Also I read with great interest your descriptions of your composite beams. I've been putting a lot of thought into how to construct my own composite beams on site, so I was very interested to see that you had already done just that. In post 2674 you described the construction of your beams and made this comment:

Quote:
Now as you know, OSB means oriented strand board. You need the orientation to be vertical not horizontal, which means you are limited to a 4 foot length on each piece of OSB.
I'm not following why you say that the strands must be oriented vertically. I know that in OSB the outer layers are composed of longer strands oriented predominately along the long axis of the panel while the inner layers are shorter strands oriented mostly along the short axis. At least, this is true in OSB sheathing panels; other OSB products may have different numbers and orientations of strand layers. This makes the panel much stronger and stiffer for bending forces applied along the strength axis (long dimension) compared to bending forces applied across the strength axis; 4-5 times stiffer and 3-4 times stronger, depending on the thickness of the panel.

That said, for this application, I don't see that the orientation makes much difference. The forces on the web of a beam like this are almost exclusively* shear through the thickness of the web. The engineering data I have (from the engineered wood association) indicates the strength of OSB sheathing for shear through the thickness of the panel is identical whether parallel to or perpendicular to the strength axis. In other words, the resistance of OSB to the type of shear stress in the web of a beam is the same whether the orientation is vertical or horizontal.

So to summarize; everything I think I know about the stresses within a beam and the strength of OSB seem to indicate that it doesn't matter which way the OSB is oriented in the webs, but you say that it's important that the strength axis is oriented vertically. What am I missing??


* I say almost. To a small degree, the portions of the web close to the top and bottom of the beam experience stress in compression and tension respectively. This is negligible, but to the extent that it exists, it would point toward orienting the strength axis along the beam rather then vertically, as OSB is slightly stronger (10-12%) in compression and substantially stronger in tension (50%-200% stronger, depending on panel thickness) along the strength axis, compared to across the strength axis.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:23 AM   #4256
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A-squared, many thanks for checking in...and season's greetings.

Let's address the metal vs. shingle roofing first.

In a remote spot in Alaska, I doubt there would be any difference in what you put on your roof. I don't care for metal roofing for three reasons. Firstly, it always looks industrial to me - at least the long single panels do. I personally do not like that on this island as I just don't think it belongs here.

Secondly, the long panels are essentially impossible to install without help. It buckles way too easily if the whole length isn't supported. If you have a helper - that idea doesn't hold any water. Unfortunately, I have seen the result of the sheets buckling all too often over here.

Thirdly - and this may come as a surprise to you - the metal roofing is far more dangerous in the event of fire. Now let me explain this.

The shingles we have used are fiberglass reinforced, and I cannot get them to burn. No doubt this seems quite contrary to what you might think, but I assure you it is so. I do whatever testing I need to make myself happy without regard to what any manufacturer says.

Next, you would think that metal couldn't possibly burn, and you would be right. However, in the event of any sort of an outside fire source, as in a forest fire for example, that metal roof does an excellent job of transferring the heat right into your framing from outside.

In case you doubt the veracity of my word, I will point you to the case of the big fire which ripped through Kelowna, B.C. a few years ago. The roofs which were covered in the f/g reinforced shingles did not catch fire. The houses with metal roofs went up in a heartbeat. Not only that, but the asphalt shingled roofs which did NOT have the f/g in them didn't go up either. Now, I will admit that surprised me somewhat.

All this was well documented at the time, and in fact it was declared a disaster and a major telethon took place in order to raise funds for the many families who literally lost everything. If memory serves, something like 300 homes were lost.

A couple of other points about metal roofing...you can buy individual interlocking metal shingles. I used to work for a time with a company that actually manufactured these things. It does take some training to install them, although any competent carpenter shouldn't have any difficulty. And the other thing is that (to me anyway) they seem outrageously overpriced. Perhaps that is partially because the company insists that their own installers always do the job, and partially because of the big commissions they pay the sales staff.

Honestly, with all things considered, plus the fact that with proper nailing the f/g reinforced shingles carry a 40 year warranty, at less than half the cost, for me it's a no brainer.

But, you know what - it's your cabin - and it's your choice.

OK, on to the joist structure.

I agree with you that it is completely counter intuitive to think that the grain orientation should be vertical. However, I have the luxury here of being able to visit a truss joist manufacturing facility fairly close by, and seeing for myself first hand how these things are done.

I will admit that my thinking was identical to yours initially. So, I'll give you something to ponder.

Considering that I did not have a nice machine with which to make my joists, it was necessary to devise a simple and economical way to do so while at the same time providing great strength. My solution, as you know, was to build the double web trusses.

Now, in the plant, they use a glue which looks very much like UF 109 (not sure if that is factually correct or not) to join the ends of the OSB as it is fed into the machine, as well as where the OSB is pressed - under considerable pressure - into the webs. The OSB is oriented vertically, not horizontally. And, of course, you want to know why.

My joists are only the same width as a standard 2 x 10, which would be 9 1/2". Now, if you take a square of OSB 9 1/2" by 9 1/2" and set it on edge, (grain horizontal) is it not reasonable to think that you could either crush or bend this fairly easily given sufficient force? I think it is.

Now orient that same square so it is vertical...do you not agree that it would be more difficult to either crush or bend it? By actual test, the answer is yes.

Given my lack of facility to make a single web truss, I opted for a double web, and used construction glue and loads of nails to fix it all together. I cannot for the life of me remember where I got the information regarding the strengths of the different trusses, but I do remember thinking that it was blindly obvious that the double was far stronger and - for me - was the obvious choice. The width of the double truss is also much greater than the typical truss joist, or I joist, whatever you wish to call it.

The fact is that it is the whole assembly which has the strength. No single component is really strong at all. Much like a monocoque race car. Any one piece of metal is flimsy, but the whole structure is stiff as can be.

My floor with these trusses is still as stiff today as it was the day it went in. I may have mentioned in the thread that from time to time, I have had some horrendous weights on that floor, all without any ill effect.

I hope this helps in some way.

I'd be really interested in hearing what sort of cabin you plan to build, how big and so forth. And how far you would be from civilization.

Thanks very much for stopping by.
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:48 AM   #4257
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Keith,

Thanks for the detailed reply. On the roofing, I don't have your aesthetic objections to metal roofing, in fact, I find a well installed steel roof in slate blue or dark green fairly attractive. No accounting for tastes I suppose. I also like the looks of asphalt shingles, so no real advantage one way or another. The metal is a hassle to handle, I know. I haven't ever installed a metal roof, but I have wrangled many panels. My previous job I frequently flew a lot of building materials out to various location in Alaska and have delivered many squares of steel roofing, all of which had to be wrestled out of the plane (DC-6 if that means anything to you) by hand, which is no mean feat when the cargo deck of the plane sits 7-8 feet above ground level and the panels are 30 feet long. Wear gloves. So my memories of wrestling steel roofing are not fond, and I could certainly be swayed toward asphalt shingles. Interesting information about the relative fire hazards. Without thinking too deeply about it, you would tend to think the opposite, but things are not always as they seem.


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Now, if you take a square of OSB 9 1/2" by 9 1/2" and set it on edge, (grain horizontal) is it not reasonable to think that you could either crush or bend this fairly easily given sufficient force? I think it is.

Now orient that same square so it is vertical...do you not agree that it would be more difficult to either crush or bend it? By actual test, the answer is yes.
This is true, although the difference in resistance to compressive stress is only 10-12 percent; not a huge difference. Certainly the resistance to buckling is considerably greater along the strength axis vs across it, buuuuuut, (and I'm not trying to be obstinate here), once the pieces are firmly joined and behaving as a whole rather then as a collection of individual parts, the majority of the stress on the web will be in shear across the thickness of the web. According to my understanding of the forces within a beam, (which may be lacking) the web just isn't subject to significant compressive stress. Maybe it is, maybe I'm not quite seeing the whole picture.

Anyway, the cabin: It's still a somewhat amorphous entity at this point. I have the land, about 7-1/2 acres of lake front property about 50 nautical miles northwest of Anchorage, although through geographic particulars the nearest road is a bit further than that. I can see Denali from my property, unfortunately that portion isn't a good location for a cabin. I have in mind a 4 season, dry cabin. Enough room for myself and my partner to both have a little elbow room. Someplace to read, relax, that won't get too small if the weather is bad. Maybe enough room to host some friends who aren't averse to sleeping bag and mattresses on the floor. I'd like a sleeping loft open to the space below. It's not going to be extravagant, but I'd like it to be distinctive. I'm not completely sure how to accomplish that. The idea of building with logs is attractive, but the property doesn't have enough trees to do that, vegetation is a bit too sparse there. I've toyed with the idea of an A-frame. I'm aware of their limitations and disadvantages but at the same time, I find them appealing. Some people like curves. I like straight lines and regular geometric shapes. (I can hear you muttering "heathen" under your breath) That in general terms is what I'm shooting for. I'm still trying to figure out how to get from here to there.
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:37 AM   #4258
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I beleive that I've discovered why I've been having difficulty understanding this deal with the beam webs. I've been thinking in terms of distributed loads. If your load is evenly distributed along the span of the beam, then the stresses are pretty much like I've been describing. But loads aren't always distributed evenly in a joist. There are also concentrated point loads, and a point load will impart a compressive force to a beam web. Makes more sense now.
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #4259
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I beleive that I've discovered why I've been having difficulty understanding this deal with the beam webs. I've been thinking in terms of distributed loads. If your load is evenly distributed along the span of the beam, then the stresses are pretty much like I've been describing. But loads aren't always distributed evenly in a joist. There are also concentrated point loads, and a point load will impart a compressive force to a beam web. Makes more sense now.
Right...chances are that neither of us will ever have a point load that would cause any damage. And the other part of the equation is that once the sheathing is down on the floor, and some sort of ceiling is nailed on underneath, the whole entity becomes an extremely strong structure. Any point load becomes distributed over a substantial area, thus negating any effect that a point load might have.

In any event, the way I look at it is this...these double web trusses are extremely strong and have carried several hundred pounds per square foot on more than one occasion. The proof is in the pudding as it were.
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:28 AM   #4260
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As to your earlier post, I have a pal who has been a flight instructor since before they made airplanes I think, so I'm familiar with the DC 6. Only ever flew on one twice.

The natural inclination regarding metal roofing is to think it would be safer in a fire. Apparently it concentrates the heat from an outside fire source. As soon as the temperature on the underside of the metal exceeds 475F, the wood framing ignites.

We have three A-frame buildings on the island here. In each case, the owners wish they hadn't built them. As you obviously know, they have serious space limitations. In fact, I just heard within the last couple of weeks that one is being taken down in favor of a more conventional shaped building. The room issue is what did it for them.

There will be no "heathen" comment from me I can promise you!

Should I find it necessary to build another house when we get off the rock, there won't be a curve in sight. Well, maybe out in the garden.

And 7 1/2 acres within earshot of Anchorage! Ahhhhhh, nice! It's been 35 years or more since I was up that way, but the country is awesome up there.

A couple of years back, there were two cabins built here which had materials flown in by chopper. I guess that might be a good option for you. As for the roofing colour, slate blue would be much nicer than green. Next time you're out there flying, look down and tell me that you see green. Your mind thinks everything is green, but look again and it's much more like that slate blue colour. There are green metal roofs here and they all stick out like a sore thumb.
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