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Old 10-16-2010, 11:49 PM   #3181
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A question has arisen about router bits suitable for making your own crown moulding. Lee Valley has a few running anywhere between $40 to $64 each. It sounds like Ebay might produce better results, if I find anything I'll let you know.

Way too many on Ebay to list. But you can find bits from around $17 and up, and they are all 1/2" shank.


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Old 10-17-2010, 06:22 AM   #3182
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Jim, I just went to check on your two NGC objects. If I had bothered to pay attention to your numbers, I would have realized they were in the southern hemisphere.

Uranometria prints a northern sky & southern sky edition. Mine is obviously for the northern sky. The -67 tells you they are way down south. Both of the NGC's you mention are open clusters.
I didn't have a clue where I was on the Google Earth thing it isn't very user friendly.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:34 AM   #3183
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I did go online looking for doors before I built this one Jim, and you are right about the prices. And even the ones you can find are still production doors. I never did find anyone who was making one-off doors by hand. I suppose they would be a couple thousand or more each.

I should tell you about some doors for sale up at the re-cycling place at Coombs, the place we got our art glass.

They have about 3 pairs of what they call Chinese courtyard doors. They are definitely very old and not in bad shape considering. They are about eight feet tall, and a pair is about 5 feet wide. They are asking $1,700 a pair for them. And they are thick! I imagine they would weigh 3-400 pounds a pair.
Now days that would be a good price on the doors that size. I trimmed a house back in the 80s which had 8 foot doors through out and they were hitting close to $1,000 each back then. I have seen doors that size made from MDF and talk about heavy and you best get the screws right on them bad boys too or they wouldn't hang long, I hated them things.
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Old 10-17-2010, 06:40 AM   #3184
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A question has arisen about router bits suitable for making your own crown moulding. Lee Valley has a few running anywhere between $40 to $64 each. It sounds like Ebay might produce better results, if I find anything I'll let you know.

Way too many on Ebay to list. But you can find bits from around $17 and up, and they are all 1/2" shank.
I need to check in on the router bits, the price on many router bits have come down a lot now days. The bad part is if you aren't on top of the brands you won't know which bits are good and which ones aren't. They are not all the same that is for sure.

Several years ago I thought I had a great deal on some bits, when I went to use them they turned to powder when they hit a knot. That is a dangerous cutter for sure.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:57 AM   #3185
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Now days that would be a good price on the doors that size. I trimmed a house back in the 80s which had 8 foot doors through out and they were hitting close to $1,000 each back then. I have seen doors that size made from MDF and talk about heavy and you best get the screws right on them bad boys too or they wouldn't hang long, I hated them things.
I don't know if we are planning another trip up to Coombs any time soon...but if we do go up there, I will see if the folks there will let me take a pic of those doors. I cannot remember now if they had which dynasty the doors were supposed to be from. But it wouldn't surprise me if they were at least 200 years old.

The wood must be extremely resistant to decay as - from memory - I think they were in fairly good condition. I know I was impressed as heck with them.

I'm all too well aware of how heavy that MDF is. The base for my countertop is MDF. I have sealed it with two coats, plus it has the easyboard on top. I don't think any moisture will get through. The edges are sealed as well.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:02 PM   #3186
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I need to check in on the router bits, the price on many router bits have come down a lot now days. The bad part is if you aren't on top of the brands you won't know which bits are good and which ones aren't. They are not all the same that is for sure.

Several years ago I thought I had a great deal on some bits, when I went to use them they turned to powder when they hit a knot. That is a dangerous cutter for sure.
You're right there. I can only remember a couple of bits I had where the carbide broke. But at the speed those bits are traveling you never know where a piece might end up. Fortunately, they are pretty well contained in the router and by the material you are cutting. But still, a broken bit...I dunno.

I do try not to have any knots in any wood I am running with the router, or if I have, I make certain I get the feed rate down to dead slow.

Another thing is to watch out for the grade of carbide, they aren't all the same.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:48 PM   #3187
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. . . so my wife says to me "If you would keep your butt off THAT INTERNET you could do a few more things around here - like clean up YOUR DAMNED GARAGE . . .

So I start cleaning up my garage (her kitchen - my garage) and look what you do Keith. I just hope my wife never finds this thread because I'll be in a world of hurt. You move too fast and get too much done in very little time. It embarrasses me! I've been (thinking about) cleaning my garage (this time) for about three years now!

The tile on the counter looks great. I would have suggested you do what you did anyway. On these Internet forums people are always wanting to install their tiles (net) with no grout spacing at all. I understand the desire to not have any grout to clean but the truth is, tiny cracks with no grout would in time only become a breeding-ground for all types of undesirable little critters and furry microbes to grow deep inside the cracks. Spacing the tile slightly and grouting is always my recommendation.

The 1/8" grout-line spacing would be my suggestion. The rule-of-thumb when choosing grouts is to use unsanded grout up to (and including) 1/8" gaps and to use sanded grout in gaps 1/8" and up. So the 1/8" gap leaves the choice of sanded or unsanded as an option.

Unsanded grout has a tendency to shrink and in some cases crack from the shrinkage. The sanded grout of course makes a better filler and typically would not shrink or crack. The downside is the sanded grout in a kitchen counter top application may be considered harder to keep clean over time.

I would suggest one of the newer urethane grouts specifically Quartz Lock. They are somewhat more work to install but the results are super. They won't stain, they won't shrink. I will warn you tho the thinset used to install the tile should be applied at as close to 100% coverage as humanly possible or the urethane grouts can sink into any voids it may find under the tile. Sinking and shrinking are two different issues. If the urethane does sink it can be repaired with a second application to fill the sinks.

Installing the tile over the Easy Board and using porcelain tile would require the use of unmodified thinset for a faster curing time. Modified thinset would work fine but would require a considerably longer curing time. Modified thinset requires air to dry and cure, unmodified thinset will dry and cure chemically on its own without the presence of air.

Those tiles look great, I couldn't tell if they were in fact travertine or porcelain ceramic. My guess was travertine - I was wrong again!

FWIW - when dressing/tooling porcelain tile silicone carbide sandpaper is the way to go. It may be harder to find but will outlast aluminum oxide papers about 10:1. Silicone carbide can also be used wet.

OK, I'm going to go stand around in my garage (some more) and just look at stuff.
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:16 PM   #3188
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Bud, why don't you have internet in the garage??? You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.. I'm at a total loss with the brands and types of materials you reference. Here we don't have them or at least it's called something different and the tradesmen like to keep it a secret, job security. dorf dude...
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:55 PM   #3189
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Bud, why don't you have internet in the garage
Oh yow...that could get me killed! I did have a TV in the garage until everything went digital last year, now I got nuthin'.
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:04 PM   #3190
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Wireless router and a laptop... perfect!
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Go ahead and apply for a variance, those guys at City Hall can use a good laugh.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:00 PM   #3191
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. . . so my wife says to me "If you would keep your butt off THAT INTERNET you could do a few more things around here - like clean up YOUR DAMNED GARAGE . . .

So I start cleaning up my garage (her kitchen - my garage) and look what you do Keith. I just hope my wife never finds this thread because I'll be in a world of hurt. You move too fast and get too much done in very little time. It embarrasses me! I've been (thinking about) cleaning my garage (this time) for about three years now!

The tile on the counter looks great. I would have suggested you do what you did anyway. On these Internet forums people are always wanting to install their tiles (net) with no grout spacing at all. I understand the desire to not have any grout to clean but the truth is, tiny cracks with no grout would in time only become a breeding-ground for all types of undesirable little critters and furry microbes to grow deep inside the cracks. Spacing the tile slightly and grouting is always my recommendation.

The 1/8" grout-line spacing would be my suggestion. The rule-of-thumb when choosing grouts is to use unsanded grout up to (and including) 1/8" gaps and to use sanded grout in gaps 1/8" and up. So the 1/8" gap leaves the choice of sanded or unsanded as an option.

Unsanded grout has a tendency to shrink and in some cases crack from the shrinkage. The sanded grout of course makes a better filler and typically would not shrink or crack. The downside is the sanded grout in a kitchen counter top application may be considered harder to keep clean over time.

I would suggest one of the newer urethane grouts specifically Quartz Lock. They are somewhat more work to install but the results are super. They won't stain, they won't shrink. I will warn you tho the thinset used to install the tile should be applied at as close to 100% coverage as humanly possible or the urethane grouts can sink into any voids it may find under the tile. Sinking and shrinking are two different issues. If the urethane does sink it can be repaired with a second application to fill the sinks.

Installing the tile over the Easy Board and using porcelain tile would require the use of unmodified thinset for a faster curing time. Modified thinset would work fine but would require a considerably longer curing time. Modified thinset requires air to dry and cure, unmodified thinset will dry and cure chemically on its own without the presence of air.

Those tiles look great, I couldn't tell if they were in fact travertine or porcelain ceramic. My guess was travertine - I was wrong again!

FWIW - when dressing/tooling porcelain tile silicone carbide sandpaper is the way to go. It may be harder to find but will outlast aluminum oxide papers about 10:1. Silicone carbide can also be used wet.

OK, I'm going to go stand around in my garage (some more) and just look at stuff.
Bud...as always your information is perfectly on time and absolutely priceless.

I was aware that the unsanded grout may shrink - you mentioned that before. I think I will use a sanded grout to try and alleviate that part of the equation.

Now, when you say faster curing time (unmodified thinset) how much time difference would that be compared to a modified thinset? Or would it be advisable to use unmodified anyway? I'm good for whatever you suggest.

You mention cleaning the sanded grout over time...would a few coats of a top quality sealer not avoid that problem? And could we not re-seal as necessary? Your expertise in this area will be much appreciated.

This one's for you, Bud. Or, is that "This Bud's for you..."
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:08 PM   #3192
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Bud...I got to thinking...I know, I know...you don't actually have a vehicle in your garage, do you?
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:31 PM   #3193
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Bud...I got to thinking...I know, I know...you don't actually have a vehicle in your garage, do you?
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:03 PM   #3194
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I know you have already seen a pic of all the tile cut on the counter, but this one - and the mate at the other end - are what should cure me of ever wanting to do something like this again.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:05 PM   #3195
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The post at the other end wasn't any easier, except for the fact that I came up with a slightly easier way to lay the tile out. Whichever way was used, there is still no room for error.
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