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Old 09-21-2010, 10:55 PM   #2671
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The ceiling heights here are irregular, to say the least.

The breakfast nook goes from about 9' 10" to 11' 4".

The vaulted part of the kitchen from 10' to 11' 8", the flat ceiling is 8', and the drop over the kitchen counter is 7' 2".

The dining room is 8' 2".

The bathroom is 8' 5".

The utility room is 8'2".

The living room is 7' 8".

The flat sides in the front entrance are 8' 2', and then the barrel vault climbs to 12' 3".

The solarium is 9' 7" where there is a ceiling, but reaches to well over 20' when you include the big hole in the floor which goes up to the front vaulted ceiling in the master bedroom.

The guest bedroom goes from 8' 1" to 11' 2".

The master bedroom goes from 8' 10" to 11' 11" on the front side of the big beam, and from 10' 9" to 14' 2" on the back side of the beam.

The ensuite goes from 8' 3" to 10' 8".

Just your average house.

When I went to do the joists, I checked out the values that I could find at the time, and it turned out to be much easier to build the double webbed version. You need a machine for the standard single web variety, which is the type you see everywhere.

If you use 2 x 3's for the web frame, then 7/16" OSB for the webs with construction glue and a few million ring nails, these things come out to be unbelievably strong. It just so happens that they make terrific walk planks as well - very, very stiff.

The downside is that they are pretty heavy for one person to install - you do it one end at a time - but that's a small price to pay for all that strength.

I have from time to time stored unconscionable amounts of wood on the bedroom floor with nary a problem. Several tons in fact. Just looking around at the remaining wood here, I would guess it to be not less than 3,800 pounds.

Irregular shapes don't really pose that much of a problem really. If you have ever done any real boatbuilding there are several ways to mark things out so that they fit more or less perfectly.

I worked for a time for a major Vancouver area custom yacht builder, and the standard for fitting sheets of 1/8" teak plywood to the inside of the compound curved hulls was such that if you could fit a piece of paper between any joint, it was unacceptable.

And as for my eyes, one is perfect, the other very nearly so.

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Old 09-22-2010, 01:17 AM   #2672
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Originally Posted by cocobolo View Post
The ceiling heights here are irregular, to say the least.

The breakfast nook goes from about 9' 10" to 11' 4".

The vaulted part of the kitchen from 10' to 11' 8", the flat ceiling is 8', and the drop over the kitchen counter is 7' 2".

The dining room is 8' 2".

The bathroom is 8' 5".

The utility room is 8'2".

The living room is 7' 8".

The flat sides in the front entrance are 8' 2', and then the barrel vault climbs to 12' 3".

The solarium is 9' 7" where there is a ceiling, but reaches to well over 20' when you include the big hole in the floor which goes up to the front vaulted ceiling in the master bedroom.

The guest bedroom goes from 8' 1" to 11' 2".

The master bedroom goes from 8' 10" to 11' 11" on the front side of the big beam, and from 10' 9" to 14' 2" on the back side of the beam.

The ensuite goes from 8' 3" to 10' 8".

Just your average house.

When I went to do the joists, I checked out the values that I could find at the time, and it turned out to be much easier to build the double webbed version. You need a machine for the standard single web variety, which is the type you see everywhere.

If you use 2 x 3's for the web frame, then 7/16" OSB for the webs with construction glue and a few million ring nails, these things come out to be unbelievably strong. It just so happens that they make terrific walk planks as well - very, very stiff.

The downside is that they are pretty heavy for one person to install - you do it one end at a time - but that's a small price to pay for all that strength.

I have from time to time stored unconscionable amounts of wood on the bedroom floor with nary a problem. Several tons in fact. Just looking around at the remaining wood here, I would guess it to be not less than 3,800 pounds.

Irregular shapes don't really pose that much of a problem really. If you have ever done any real boatbuilding there are several ways to mark things out so that they fit more or less perfectly.

I worked for a time for a major Vancouver area custom yacht builder, and the standard for fitting sheets of 1/8" teak plywood to the inside of the compound curved hulls was such that if you could fit a piece of paper between any joint, it was unacceptable.

And as for my eyes, one is perfect, the other very nearly so.
Myyyyy stars, I had no idea you had that many ceilings. The more I learn about you and your home the more amazed I am. "Just your average house", yeah right, buddy, your home is anything but average.

Keith, when you made your engineered joist, did you stagger the joints on the OSB board on each side or did you splice the ends some way? Is there a rule of thumb as to the height of the joist per the length? You don't have to go into detail unless you have time and really feel like it. I am really curious and fascinated as I have never seen them built that way. I can imagine how strong they really are. I wished I had thought about them years ago. One more question, there isn't any frame work other than the 2x at the top and bottom and the OSB on each side, right?

I can see why they are heavy, with that much wood.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:26 AM   #2673
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Keith,

can you explain the joist construction for us, please. Maybe a picture?

I'm not following the 'double web' thing...

Thanks.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:34 AM   #2674
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Myyyyy stars, I had no idea you had that many ceilings. The more I learn about you and your home the more amazed I am. "Just your average house", yeah right, buddy, your home is anything but average.

Keith, when you made your engineered joist, did you stagger the joints on the OSB board on each side or did you splice the ends some way? Is there a rule of thumb as to the height of the joist per the length? You don't have to go into detail unless you have time and really feel like it. I am really curious and fascinated as I have never seen them built that way. I can imagine how strong they really are. I wished I had thought about them years ago. One more question, there isn't any frame work other than the 2x at the top and bottom and the OSB on each side, right?

I can see why they are heavy, with that much wood.
Yes, sorry Jim, as usual I have given you half the story.

There is a 2 x 3 at the top and bottom of each joist. Then every 2 feet there is a vertical 2 x 3 as well - it looks like a ladder. The OSB joins on one of the verticals, just like a stud in a wall. And yes, the joins of the OSB are staggered so as not to be on the same stud, but there is no finger joint or anything like that. Just plenty of construction glue and nails.

Now as you know, OSB means oriented strand board. You need the orientation to be vertical not horizontal, which means you are limited to a 4 foot length on each piece of OSB.

You could use either 16" or 24" centers for your studs.

I cannot remember the source for my information...it may have been a manufacturer, or it may have been something I took from the Canadian Building code. It was quite a number of years ago now.

I rather imagine that a Google search would turn up much more info these days.

But - as they say - the proof is in the pudding. And even with some of the overweight loads I have had on the floor, there has been no objection from the trusses.

Something else which contributes to the overall structure is that all my floors are double layered. I have 3/4" shiplap down first, then 5/8" T & G plywood on top of that.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:43 AM   #2675
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Keith,

can you explain the joist construction for us, please. Maybe a picture?

I'm not following the 'double web' thing...

Thanks.
Ahhh...you snuck in there while I wasn't looking...

A standard truss has a single web. The web is the vertical piece(s) of OSB.

The manufacturer makes a groove in the middle of two pieces of 2x lumber, and then using a machine, forces the OSB into these grooves using much pressure and adequate glue. The ends of the OSB are held together with this glue effectively.

The 2x lumber is frequently made from short pieces of lumber which has finger joints in the end of every piece. Again, these finger joints are obviously glued.

Essentially, the machine makes a continuous length truss, and it is cut off at whatever length they require as it comes from the machine.

The various widths of the 2x lumber and the overall height of the truss help determine the load bearing capacity.

There are provisions for double web trusses, as I have made, but I have not seen a commercially manufactured one. I doubt very much if you would ever need anything other than a single web truss in any sort of residential construction.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:07 PM   #2676
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Yes, sorry Jim, as usual I have given you half the story.

There is a 2 x 3 at the top and bottom of each joist. Then every 2 feet there is a vertical 2 x 3 as well - it looks like a ladder. The OSB joins on one of the verticals, just like a stud in a wall. And yes, the joins of the OSB are staggered so as not to be on the same stud, but there is no finger joint or anything like that. Just plenty of construction glue and nails.

Now as you know, OSB means oriented strand board. You need the orientation to be vertical not horizontal, which means you are limited to a 4 foot length on each piece of OSB.

You could use either 16" or 24" centers for your studs.

I cannot remember the source for my information...it may have been a manufacturer, or it may have been something I took from the Canadian Building code. It was quite a number of years ago now.

I rather imagine that a Google search would turn up much more info these days.

But - as they say - the proof is in the pudding. And even with some of the overweight loads I have had on the floor, there has been no objection from the trusses.

Something else which contributes to the overall structure is that all my floors are double layered. I have 3/4" shiplap down first, then 5/8" T & G plywood on top of that.
Thank you buddy for explaining that to us, we really do appreciate you for taking your time to give us all the details. I just love to learn new things and new or different ways of doing things.

Being in the boat end of wood working really shows in your woodworking. I especially like the paper test on a joint. That was always one of my pet peeves, folks leaving a lose joint when it doesn't take but a little more effort to get it tight and right. Man what I would give to be able to walk through your house and see first hand all your work.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:12 PM   #2677
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Thank you buddy for explaining that to us, we really do appreciate you for taking your time to give us all the details. I just love to learn new things and new or different ways of doing things.

Being in the boat end of wood working really shows in your woodworking. I especially like the paper test on a joint. That was always one of my pet peeves, folks leaving a lose joint when it doesn't take but a little more effort to get it tight and right. Man what I would give to be able to walk through your house and see first hand all your work.
Jim:

If you ever find yourself up this way the door is always open. It would be a genuine treat to have you visit.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #2678
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Jim:

If you ever find yourself up this way the door is always open. It would be a genuine treat to have you visit.
Thank you my friend, I would love that but my health won't allow that to happen but I feel like I have been there many times already through your painting such a wonderful picture with words and photos.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:38 PM   #2679
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Keith,

You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge and tricks of the trade. I must admit when I saw your "double web joist/truss" comment, that stopped me for moment. "What the hell is he talking about" is what I asked myself. I have thirty-four years in the building trades and had never seen or heard of such a species of truss. And I've swung a truss or two in my time.

Well I might have known...
Ole Keith is at it again...now he's building his own double web trusses.

Amazing, just amazing. I'm lovin' it.

I might also mention that the style building-member Keith is referring to (the single web not the double web) is commonly known in this country as an "I-Joist". I'm sure most every DIY'er has heard of an I-Joist.

OK, carry on, I'll shut up.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:05 PM   #2680
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Right again Bud, they are usually called I-joists up here as well.

I believe about the only time you may ever see a double web I-joist might be in some sort of commercial construction.

But further to that, they have perfected the type of truss (years ago now) which they make with 2 x 4 top and bottom plates, and connect with tubular steel members. I understand that not only are they less expensive to manufacture than if they had OSB for the webs (due to their height) but of course they leave the ceiling wide open for runs of electrical, plumbing or HVAC lines etc. And they can span greater distances.

Until they are all cross-connected, they are very weak and prone to breakage if not handled carefully. Which is why they are put in place by crane just in case Careless Corey the construction worker drops the damn thing!

These double web guys are very stiff in any direction, so it doesn't matter if they are put up on the flat and then stood upright. The lumber/steel tube trusses would never survive such treatment.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:51 PM   #2681
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I have before me a DVD. No big deal you say. Well, this one IS a big deal.

It was sent to me by an extremely thoughtful and generous member of the site here who goes by the moniker of sbmfj.

He saw this particular DVD on TV, and it seems that the "star" of the show reminded him of myself. I plan on sitting down with my wife and watching this at the first opportunity.

He's probably going to be annoyed with me for thanking him so publicly, but I find it quite impossible to let such a kind and generous act go unmentioned.

So a heartfelt "Thank You!" goes out to sbmfj for this most pleasant of surprises.

Thank you!
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:56 AM   #2682
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I may as well be the one to ask.... Any chance you'll tell us the name of the tv show?
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:14 AM   #2683
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I may as well be the one to ask.... Any chance you'll tell us the name of the tv show?
When I watch the DVD and find out I'll be happy to let you know. I think it is something like "Alone in the Wilderness".
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:05 AM   #2684
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Thank you my friend, I would love that but my health won't allow that to happen but I feel like I have been there many times already through your painting such a wonderful picture with words and photos.
I hear you on that one Jim.

I'm not much better off but as long as I can last until the house is done, then I'll be happy.

I have the idea that if I ever actually get this place finished - and it's starting to look dangerously that I actually might - I will make up a video and put it on a disc. Our daughter took some sort of commercial photography course at a college in Vancouver years ago, and she's pretty good with the video camera. She has the expensive video camera, I just have the cheapie. Maybe when she comes over next summer I can con her into trying to make the place look halfway decent and I can do the walk around thing with explanations as we go.

Then all I have to do is send you a copy...nuthin' to it!
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #2685
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Yesterday was another unplanned trip to town. While we were over the day before, I spotted some doors on special at the House of Pot. They were 28" doors, which no doubt is the reason they had such a big stack of them.

When we got home I measured up the three holes we need to fill up with doors downstairs - the utility room, bathroom and closet under the stairs - and by a stroke of good fortune, it looks as though 28" doors will be OK.

So it was off again yesterday to pick up the three of them, plus some more lumber to make the jambs with, and some of the filler framing. I think I'm all set now.

Late yesterday I started to reduce the 6 foot high pile of wood behind the table saw and I'll have to carry on with that today. I only got it down to five feet last night.

I'm still in need of four or five hundred lineal feet of the lap cedar that I use to finish the walls and some parts of the ceiling with. I did find a handful of boards, but will still need to machine at least another three hundred lineal.

Once the big pile is gone I should have more than enough to get all that finished.

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