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Old 05-15-2009, 01:07 PM   #16
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Greetings! New home owner (of an OLD home)


I'm not sure what you are referring to as 'cripples' and 'top sill / jack studs', but this isn't the latest picture any longer. I have studs above the door and window resting on double 2x4s above the door and window. I'm not sure they had to be doubled, but now I have double 2x4s around the door and window. Those little bastards were hard to get into that small amount of space . I also have one short stud at the bottom edges of the window to help support the double 2x4 that is under the window (that may be a jack stud?).

As far as insulation goes for the floor, OOPS! I'll have to come up with something for that if I make it part of the dining room area (behind that paneled wall). I wonder how much it'd be to spray foam under the whole thing (I have a loose cinder block currently on the south (left side) of the porch. Right now it's going to act as a 'crawl space' entry point in this sort of emergency (in the event that heating and cooling vents need to be run there etc, though I'd hate to be the one that has to get under there! That is worth paying someone else to do, I know they have to go into the crawl space under the addition when there was some plumbing problems and gas line work to be done.)

I want to put 1/2" plywood up on the outside. Then put up 3:8" foam board around the entire porch. I'd like to then wrap it all in a house wrap material. Should all that have been done before putting in the door and window? Not to late to take them out yet to get it right.

I have to worry about flashing around the windows and door yet too. I was going to put that on after the plywood is put in place, so it's not interfering with the foam wrap. Is that the correct time to do that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the order for that tin / tape is bottom, sides, top so there are no upward exposed seams correct?

As for the 'sagging' cinder blocks in the middle, we didn't have to do much after the 20' 2x12 was laid across it with the doubled up 20' 20x12 as the front piece. I know, in time, it may be prone to sagging there, so the plan is currently to put shims into the left over space then put the plywood and foam board over it all. when I put all that up, I plan on running another piece of wood (ripped 2x4 to proper width is what I'm thinking atm ?) along the bottom to 'close it all up' nice and neat.

I also have to build a nice set of wood steps up into the house. The plan is to build it right over the top of the existing cement steps (less work ) Thinking they will have to be four steps instead of three as that step up into the house is a bit high for my liking right now (a bit higher than the steps on the cement, and mother and father are getting older so I don't want them to have to work too hard to get in when they visit...or do I >:] ... hmm).

I also want to get two lights on the outside of the door, right now the only lighting out there is the two little lamps on the porch, yuk.


Last edited by CaptnTony; 05-15-2009 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:44 PM   #17
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I'm now analyzing the work done so far and found that we can't life the floor up because we ran the 3/4" plywood out to edge of room then put the 2x4 bottom runner down over the top of that - thus making it's removal 'impossible' (nothing is impossible but some things just aren't worth the effort )

So to insulate under the floor, what is generally done? There obviously isn't a basement under this and filling the entire space is laughable as I can't have insulation directly on the ground (I hope people didn't think that was serious). I can remove the door and studs between it and the house out, thus gaining access to the 'underworld' of the porch pretty easily (it's rocky down there though so I'd have to get something flat to lay down there to crawl on). I could then get under each of the joists to 'hang' some insulation there.

I'm now going to have to draw straws on who goes under there, but I can see me putting regular insulation between the floor joists, then putting a very thin plywood (1/4" or smallest I can get) to support it and then apply some tyvex wrap outside that plywood to be the vapor barrier. Would that be sufficient. It's always more work (and usually more difficult) to fix issues, but it has to be done if I'm going to take that wall out at some later date). But, as this is my first ever attempt, that isn't bad to fix a boo-boo with that severity.

Any ideas are appreciated? Should I be taking this stuff outside the intro section now?


I will be removing the door and window this weekend so I can get it the 'framed inspection' next week. After that (and fixing whatever the inspector finds wrong) get the plywood, foam and wrap on the outside. Then get the final sitting for the window and door in place. Whew, next few days are going to be busy busy busy! I have to get some plastic tarp to wrap around it too because this weekend is suppose to be wet! Storms until Tuesday around here.

Last edited by CaptnTony; 05-15-2009 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:15 PM   #18
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OK, I found some design specs for framing windows and doors (www.architectionary.com). Ooops, have to set those top headers on edge instead of flat. That shouldn't be too much of a problem.I will have to change how the jackstuds are done, I think I'll just sawsall the inside stud to the correct height and put the header onto it. Thanks for the catch of that problem. It makes total sense to me now, it will be more difficult to bow on edge rather than flat. I'll get that fixed up tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:34 PM   #19
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Yes that's a big window not to have a header
I wasn't sure if one was built into the roof - hidden
Trimmer stud - also called jacking stud


Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 05-15-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:42 PM   #20
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Thats definally the most common way to do things properly. You can also put a 2x on its side under the header sitting on the trimmers for a nailing edge if you don't want to build out your header flush with the inside wall or want to add rigid insulation like we do up north
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:26 PM   #21
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Well, yesterday some time, my hot water heater "blew up". Not a pretty sight downstairs. But, on the good side, today I got to learn how to put in a 40gal natural gas water heater. Didn't take long at all. I'm glad I have friends that know how to do it and could look over my shoulder!

We also got the frame fixed up so we have the proper layout for the door and windows. It's almost time to hang the plywood (1/2") and have to make a decision on the foam board soon too that means.

Closing is on May 28th. I'm hoping at least some of this is done for the closing date party
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:49 PM   #22
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Hey Tony,

ARe you going to put foam board on the outside and insulation within the walls too?
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:56 PM   #23
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Yes, that is the plan. Just in case the inside wall comes down at some future date, I want that area to be well prepared for its new role. I still don't know how I will insulate under the floor, but when the decision to remove the wall comes up, I'll find a way.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Yes that's a big window not to have a header
I wasn't sure if one was built into the roof - hidden
Trimmer stud - also called jacking stud

Good point, and nice diagrams.

However, it looks like there may be a beam, running the entire length of that upper plate (Green). When you have a beam like that already in place, then "it", is carrying and bearing the load. "If" that is the case, then there is no need for a structural header over the window ("if" there is no weight planing down above it).
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:21 AM   #25
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Hi, Tony. I was going to say welcome to the site, but you may have joined before me! Welcome anyway!!

To access your porch crawl, just cut the ply only, to remove a sheet. Put it back after inspection. Run the saw next to the walls, cut a 32" square hole over the joists. When replacing, turn it 90* to get the proper strength axis out of the ply. May want to use a few screws on the rest of it, unless you used glue. Decking runs at right angles to the joists, but you'll be fine.

You'll need a solid header for the opening into the house/addition. The house roof rafters bear on the old wall, so do the porch rafters. With the access open, you can put some bearing under the new header's trimmers, maybe just shims, when you get to that point.

Fill any gaps due to uneven concrete, under your pressure treated sill plate with mortar mix. (while the access ply is open)

Looking good! Be safe, G
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:39 AM   #26
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Hey Tony,

I would follow GBar's advice and get under the floor now. Get that floor insulated.

Hey Guys, What advice do you have for Tony with respect to vapour barriers below this porch?
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:00 PM   #27
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Yeah, I thought about cutting up a section of the floor (used 12" spacing). I'm not planning on putting any floor down until I figure out if the wall will be coming down or not. That makes a big difference on what will be going in that 'room'.

Yes, I showed one of our inspectors the pictures and pointed out the six (YES 6) 2x10s nailed together that run the full length of the porch. That wood was solid, so we left it there. He told me I wouldn't need a header because of the 'over build' I did on it (7.9' stud length, three on each side of the widow, 2 2x12s set on edge under the window and above door, 2 2x6s ended up being the "2nd" header over the window as there was EXACTLY that amount of space between the 2 2x10s put in there as a header). My motto is to over build it as it's not costing me any labor

Good idea to put screws down in the floor too, I was thinking about that but the others working with me said it wouldn't be necessary as we used about 25 nails on each edge to the joist :o. But I think a few screws to ensure it stays down, and silent, I like the idea.

I think I'm lucky because when grandpa put the addition on, the ceilings are 12' with a 'hanging' ceiling at 10' (according to my dad, I haven't tried anything with the ceiling at all - if it ain't broke, don't break it!) But I see a span that looks like the porch being built between the dining area and this front 'room' if that wall comes down. I already have a square arch from the dining room area (the added on side of house - left) to the living room. I would look to build the same feel with a set of 2x12s over as header. It may actually already be there as it appears in the dining room). We'll see what's there when I start tearing the paneling off the walls inside.

Going to purchase my outside plywood, foam and tyvek (I think that's what it is called) tomorrow. I also found out my outside (glass 'screen' door) is ready to be picked up. Exciting times indeed.

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