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Old 06-02-2010, 03:40 PM   #766
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I see what you're up to now with the jacks...good idea.

Have you considered the idea of also adding a bolt through each of the cross beams into the main beam?

When you go to screw down the ceiling boards ( I know you are impatient to get this done...) if you just put a single screw in each board where it crosses a beam - then let it dry somewhat, and then add the rest of the screws later, the wood should split far less.

What would be even better would be to lay the ceiling boards in place with no screws for awhile (maybe one at each end just to keep them in place). The longer the time the better. Then any splitting would be kept to an absolute minimum.

What kind of wood are your ceiling boards cut from?
I planned on big lags into every beam to beam contact with cork on all points that touch. I like your idea of waiting with a couple of screws to hold things in place with the ceiling boards. They are very green and wet. I can hardly move some of them alone. Maybe pilot holes will reduce splitting. I'm using high tech screws that drill and secure with super threads cut into them. Cost is 2 times the normal. Nothing will move when they set things in. On the other hand, If I bore an 6mm hole before setting a normal 4.5mm screw that should reduce splitting pretty good. I think pre-drilling is a good idea. Thanks for bringing that up. I think it is either pine or fir, I never asked. You get what they give. dorf dude...
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:10 PM   #767
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Since your boards are very green, either pine or fir will shrink very noticeably across the width of the plank. Far less so from end to end.

If the boards are pine, they should appear to be whiter than fir, which should have a distinct pinkish tinge in the heartwood area. I'm hoping you have fir.

The shrinkage will be caused by the actual cell walls slowly losing their moisture content over a period of time. The actual thickness of the boards will have a significant bearing on how long this might be.

The bulk of the shrinkage will occur in the next 3-4 months.

If you can find out when the trees were felled, that might be handy.

Any trees felled while dormant dry out more quickly than trees felled during the growing season. And since both of those trees are softwood, they both have distinct growth rings. You will be able to count the rings to determine the ages of the trees easily.

Pilot holes are always a good idea, no matter what you are screwing down. However, when you put in two (or more) screws across the width of the board when it is wet, the board will split between the screws every time.

Your patience with letting the boards dry out at least partially will pay off big time.

Last edited by cocobolo; 06-02-2010 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Added stuff
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:21 PM   #768
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I'm tracking with the let the boards sit and dry. dorf dude...
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:15 PM   #769
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I'm tracking with the let the boards sit and dry. dorf dude...
You will be happy that you did...guaranteed!
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:36 PM   #770
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I found an end cut off a small fir, and the log that it came off. The end cut is wet, the log isn't quite so much.

But it shows you the colour of what a young fir looks like. This one wasn't even 30 years old.

The wetness is making the colour more vibrant that it really is when dry.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:57 PM   #771
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I thinks I have Pine. Maybe some of the beams might be Fir or Tamarac. Some of the ceiling boards have a lot of sap. Thats why I'm thinking Pine. Thanks for your pics. I only made minimal progress today. Yet another Catholic Holiday, must be quiet. They will hear me all weekend including Sunday. I have to get things done. More pics later, dorf dude...
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:40 PM   #772
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If I am reading the log right that is red pine which we don't see too often and that is a fast growth log due I can tell the ring size marks on them.

It should be dry in about 8 months if humity level is low but med to high humity it will take longer to dry out.

Merci,Marc
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:42 AM   #773
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I thinks I have Pine. Maybe some of the beams might be Fir or Tamarac. Some of the ceiling boards have a lot of sap. Thats why I'm thinking Pine. Thanks for your pics. I only made minimal progress today. Yet another Catholic Holiday, must be quiet. They will hear me all weekend including Sunday. I have to get things done. More pics later, dorf dude...
OK, fir is a wood which has pitch pockets frequently.

Some pines (pitch pine for example) has pitch, some do not. I will do some more research over the next few days about that for you. I use Bruce Hoadley's book for that. He's about as expert as they come.

And yes, you might have Tamarack (Larch) which is about the strongest of the conifers. If you have that for the beams - which you may well do - that might go a long way toward explaining why the wood is still good after what is very possibly a period of centuries.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:48 AM   #774
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If I am reading the log right that is red pine which we don't see too often and that is a fast growth log due I can tell the ring size marks on them.

It should be dry in about 8 months if humity level is low but med to high humity it will take longer to dry out.

Merci,Marc
Marc:

Red pine is not native to western north america, so it is not a tree we see here.

The picture is definitely fir. It's just a baby.

And yes, it was a fast grower.

A genuine Red pine - which is native to the other side of north america, the "wrong" side if you will, grows to be a large tree. Diameters of 3 feet+ are common, along with heights exceeding 100 feet.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #775
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The cross brace beam that has been hanging for the last year is finally in. Mat came by and gave me a hand. We screw jacked it up until it hit a beam and measured the largest gap. We cut that depth out of the deepest beam. Then we did some small cuts to even things out. The Fein Multi Master came in handy! I didn't want to lift the beam up and down so I figured out to just lay it sideways a little resting on pieces of wood help by clamps on the main beams. We then just tipped it back up and test fitted. I ended up with 4 cuts, one shim and one that just came out perfect. The main beams have been BF Lag bolted to the cross support. I put Vasaline on the bolts and they went in much easier. This was a big step I now need to come up with upright support beams. The screw jacks stay in place for now. I also applied the first coat of gel to the beam. Still wet in the picture. I still have the whole weekend to keep going. Lets see what happens. I will take pics. I also sprayed my weeds with a 50/50 Vinegar-Water solution. It's supposed to kill everything. We'll see. Much cheaper than Roundup. dorf dude...
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:45 PM   #776
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Do you have any outfits around there which handle recycled materials?

Maybe you will be lucky enough to find some old 8 x 8's for support posts. Or try an ad in the local paper, you never know when someone has a couple of these things laying around. It would be a crime to use something new with all that magnificent old wood in there.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:44 PM   #777
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Do you have any outfits around there which handle recycled materials?

Maybe you will be lucky enough to find some old 8 x 8's for support posts. Or try an ad in the local paper, you never know when someone has a couple of these things laying around. It would be a crime to use something new with all that magnificent old wood in there.
I'm way ahead of you Keith. There will be no new beams down stairs. Upstairs is the new wood area. On my way to see what I can get done today. More pics in about 12 hours, dorf dude...
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:07 AM   #778
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Marc:

Red pine is not native to western north america, so it is not a tree we see here.

The picture is definitely fir. It's just a baby.

And yes, it was a fast grower.

A genuine Red pine - which is native to the other side of north america, the "wrong" side if you will, grows to be a large tree. Diameters of 3 feet+ are common, along with heights exceeding 100 feet.
I have see couple in Northen Wisconsin area { I have pretty good size property located in Northen area and yes I have couple red pines in my area }

But mostly mixed bag of white pine , Birch , Red and white oak but I hate basswood they are fast growers but too soft a wood and yeah I have few Ironwood as well.

In France we have mixed bags of woods as well not far behind with Americian woods.

Merci,Marc
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:12 AM   #779
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I'm way ahead of you Keith. There will be no new beams down stairs. Upstairs is the new wood area. On my way to see what I can get done today. More pics in about 12 hours, dorf dude...
Looking forward to seeing them!!
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:15 AM   #780
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I have see couple in Northen Wisconsin area { I have pretty good size property located in Northen area and yes I have couple red pines in my area }

But mostly mixed bag of white pine , Birch , Red and white oak but I hate basswood they are fast growers but too soft a wood and yeah I have few Ironwood as well.

In France we have mixed bags of woods as well not far behind with Americian woods.

Merci,Marc
Marc: Do you have many Elm tress left over there?

I remember reading about some big losses a few years ago when you had some hurricane force winds that came through. I don't know what area that was.

And then there is the dreaded Dutch elm disease.

The Ironwood you mention...is that the same Ironwood which grows down in Mexico by any chance?
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