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Old 06-03-2014, 10:08 AM   #1
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Washing Machine Drain Stumper


I have a WF338AAW/XAA. I have replaced the pump and the main power circuit board. The unit still has an intermittent drain and will throw the ND code..

I have pulled all the hoses off a couple times. Looked at the drain tub hose to pump, no issue, cleaned out the drain hose.

It really looks like there is a design flaw here. The unit will leave just a little bit of water in the tub, if I pull out the machine and bring the hose down to a 5 gallon bucket level, it drains out over a gallon of water. The old pump, the new pump neither seem like they have the ability to consistently get the water up to the 36" high drain in the wall.. Sometimes if we let the unit sit, enough water will settle and then it seems like manages to get the umphff to break the deadlock condition.. Unit will throw the nd code, then I let it sit, maybe it gets over it, maybe i'll drain from the front tube.. Very frustrating..

Is 36" too high for a washer drain in the wall?

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Old 06-03-2014, 11:42 AM   #2
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Sounds like you know a lot more about washers then me. We have an upright washer and the hose runs higher than the top of machine and then drops down into the drain. My drain is at 42 inches and the machine has a 1 foot lift under it.

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Old 06-03-2014, 11:43 AM   #3
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I think it's broken.

Under warranty?
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Old 06-03-2014, 02:28 PM   #4
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I think it's broken.

Under warranty?
Yes, it's broken! It worked for 5 years before starting to get intermittent throw nd codes (no drain). That is why I posted on the DIY chatroom. What is broken?

It isn't tub drain to the pump tube. That is clear. The drain tube from pump to the drain in the wall was cleaned out.

It wasn't the power board that controls the power to the pump. That was replaced and had no effect.

It wasn't the pump it's self, that was replaced and had no effect.

I have a drain tube on order, but it seems like a long shot.. Why won't my pump generate sufficient head pressure to always empty out the tub basin?

-Jeff
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:41 PM   #5
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Yes, it's broken! It worked for 5 years before starting to get intermittent throw nd codes (no drain). That is why I posted on the DIY chatroom. What is broken?

It isn't tub drain to the pump tube. That is clear. The drain tube from pump to the drain in the wall was cleaned out.

It wasn't the power board that controls the power to the pump. That was replaced and had no effect.

It wasn't the pump it's self, that was replaced and had no effect.

I have a drain tube on order, but it seems like a long shot.. Why won't my pump generate sufficient head pressure to always empty out the tub basin?

-Jeff
Jeez. These things are just like modern cars. Throwing codes and then the owner starts throwing parts at it.


Have you hooked up power to the pump to see what happens, ie bypass the control board? Could two control boards be bad. Never know.

Have you tried dumping the drain hose into a bucket, say 2' off the floor to see if 3' is too high for it?

Just throwing anything out there. It may help spark an idea.

If the pump doesn't fill completely, it will just spit air and water and won't flow up the tube I would imagine. Is there some kind of solenoid that allows water to the pump?
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:20 AM   #6
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So this is my pluming for the washer. It is about 34" to the top of the drain opening from the floor. Are there any codes on things like this? I found that the pump on the washer does not have enough power to consistently drain if there is an inch of water in the drum. If there are a few inches, then it can generate enough head pressure to get it going and then momentum takes over and it drains.

Who designs a drain pump that can't get 34" high?
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
So this is my pluming for the washer. It is about 34" to the top of the drain opening from the floor. Are there any codes on things like this? I found that the pump on the washer does not have enough power to consistently drain if there is an inch of water in the drum. If there are a few inches, then it can generate enough head pressure to get it going and then momentum takes over and it drains.

Who designs a drain pump that can't get 34" high?
I think the code for trap is 12" minimum above floor. and minimum height of stand pipe is 18" above pipe. and of course they do need vents. But not real sure on that.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:45 AM   #8
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Who designs a drain pump that can't get 34" high?
My laundry tub is 3' high and the drain hose dumps in there no problem.

Take the height of your plumbing out of the equation and concentrate on your machine.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:23 PM   #9
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My laundry tub is 3' high and the drain hose dumps in there no problem.

Take the height of your plumbing out of the equation and concentrate on your machine.
OK, then what would you do? I've changed the power board, I've changed the pump assembly. Still can't generate enough head pressure. I've hooked it up to a Variac and tried 120-140 volts, still not enough head pressure.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:40 PM   #10
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I'd do one thing at a time.

Starting here:

So, you've disconnected the hose from the pump and poured water into the tub and it flows out fast with no slow downs?
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:32 PM   #11
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I'd do one thing at a time.

Starting here:

So, you've disconnected the hose from the pump and poured water into the tub and it flows out fast with no slow downs?
1. There is a hose from the basin tub to the pump. Removed inspected. No restrictions.
2. There is a impeller pump that is part of the drain clean-out assembly. Old one was completely free and clear, new one is, well brand new and very clean and clear. New one works the same as the old one..
3. There is a single hose from the pump through the chassis, up to the drain of the house. It has been removed, blown out, looked through. It is completely clean. Like I said, when you reduce the height of the output, the tub is drained extremely fast, maybe a 4 gallons per minute rate. If there was any obstruction, this would not be possible..

So, I've been fighting this thing for weeks. Pump gets 120v, pump has no problem running. If I put a lot of water in the tub >3", the momentum, or "chain reaction" takes it all out when the pump kicks on, probably due to the higher head pressure from the tub helping the pump.. The tough spot is when there is about 1" of water in the tub, it struggles against the head pressure up the drain hose, some times completes it after several minutes of struggling, some times throws the nd code. In every case I've tried, lowering the head pressure by lowering the drain hose from 34" to 20" causes it to evacuate at a high rate.

Thoughts?

-Jeff

Last edited by zootjeff; 06-04-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
1. There is a hose from the basin tub to the pump. Removed inspected. No restrictions.
2. There is a impeller pump that is part of the drain clean-out assembly. Old one was completely free and clear, new one is, well brand new and very clean and clear. New one works the same as the old one..
3. There is a single hose from the pump through the chassis, up to the drain of the house. It has been removed, blown out, looked through. It is completely clean. Like I said, when you reduce the height of the output, the tub is drained extremely fast, maybe a 4 gallons per minute rate. If there was any obstruction, this would not be possible..

So, I've been fighting this thing for weeks. Pump gets 120v, pump has no problem running. If I put a lot of water in the tub >3", the momentum, or "chain reaction" takes it all out when the pump kicks on, probably due to the higher head pressure from the tub helping the pump.. The tough spot is when there is about 1" of water in the tub, it struggles against the head pressure up the drain hose, some times completes it after several minutes of struggling, some times throws the nd code. In every case I've tried, lowering the head pressure by lowering the drain hose from 34" to 20" causes it to evacuate at a high rate.

Thoughts?

-Jeff
I think for some reason the last bit of water is not running into the pump. If the last bit all hit the pump and filled it up, it would pump out.

Or just coil enough hose in the base of the machine that would hold the volume of water that's left in the tank and it will run there by gravity and get discharged on the next load.

How much water is there total between the 1" in the tub and the pump?
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:06 PM   #13
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I think for some reason the last bit of water is not running into the pump. If the last bit all hit the pump and filled it up, it would pump out.

Or just coil enough hose in the base of the machine that would hold the volume of water that's left in the tank and it will run there by gravity and get discharged on the next load.

How much water is there total between the 1" in the tub and the pump?
The 1" in the tub plus the water in the hoses down to the pump is about 3/4 gallon. The pump is at the lowest point. I don't follow your logic here. I don't think that would work.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:33 PM   #14
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If it can't pump out the last bit of water, give the water some where to go.

If I were you, by this point, I would have bought a new washing machine.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
I have a WF338AAW/XAA. I have replaced the pump and the main power circuit board. The unit still has an intermittent drain and will throw the ND code..

I have pulled all the hoses off a couple times. Looked at the drain tub hose to pump, no issue, cleaned out the drain hose.

It really looks like there is a design flaw here. The unit will leave just a little bit of water in the tub, if I pull out the machine and bring the hose down to a 5 gallon bucket level, it drains out over a gallon of water. The old pump, the new pump neither seem like they have the ability to consistently get the water up to the 36" high drain in the wall.. Sometimes if we let the unit sit, enough water will settle and then it seems like manages to get the umphff to break the deadlock condition.. Unit will throw the nd code, then I let it sit, maybe it gets over it, maybe i'll drain from the front tube.. Very frustrating..
Samsung issue a service bulletin to their techs on the wa series, to improve pump quality. see here Perhaps there is one on the wf as well. Try calling or go on line to samsung and ask the manufacturer directly what the problem could be. They are a reputable company. If it's still under some kind of warantee, you may get lucky. Just a suggestion.

I feel bad that you have invested all that money and still no results. It has to be very frustrating. Sorry I couldn't be of more help to you. I agree with your design flaw theory. Hope you can get it figured out soon. Please keep us posted of the results. Thank you.


Last edited by jmon; 06-04-2014 at 07:43 PM.
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