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Old 04-28-2011, 08:28 PM   #16
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


oh, and that is official Toyota repair manual for Yarr-asses. that's where it came from.

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Old 04-28-2011, 08:56 PM   #17
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


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oh, and that is official Toyota repair manual for Yarr-asses. that's where it came from.
It's not that I thought the manual was defective. It seems to be decent. I just did not realize that the alternator on WillK's car had been flipped forward and that slotted bracket removed or moved out of the way. I was thinking it might have been some mid year split and maybe the next years model showed what I though WillK had.

When I tried to chase it, using the site you linked, I kept getting stopped without getting anything. I figured you might be able to come up with an 08 manual.

It was all my mistake.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:19 PM   #18
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


This building things stupid isn't a new idea. The full size Fords in the 70's were set up where you removed the right front fender to change the blower motor. Some of the Mustang 2's, you undid the motor mounts and raised the engine to change the oil filter. When it comes to common sense, it isn't common. My brother worked for an airplane manu for years, his job was to figure out if what was being designed could be built.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:25 PM   #19
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


My 97 ford truck has to have the battery removed to replace the left headlight.
Took all of 5 minutes to replace the right one, and an hour to replace the left one.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:28 PM   #20
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


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This building things stupid isn't a new idea. t.
Yes, I have been hating engineers for years
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:00 AM   #21
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


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I can't tell in your pic but is the boss the bolt passes through first (as you are putting the bolt in) part of the mounting that remains with the engine or part of the alternator?

If it is part of the alt, it would appear you should be able to pick up the alternator with the bolt left in the boss. Because you are in the situation you are, I suspect that last part of the boss is part of the engine mounting.

So, although this really isn't that old of a vehicle, is it possible an engine mount has broken or shifted enough to cause the engine to set deeper in the engine bay than it should? While it really doesn't look like lifting it up a relatively small amount such as you might experience from a worn mount, I figured I would at least toss that out there.

can you determine how much further you have to pull the bolt out to get it out? Is there any chance of simply wedging the engine towards the drivers side that amount without having to disassemble major components?
So the lower pivot is what we refer to as a double shear joint, which is ideal because you aren't relying on the bolt to provide strength strictly by way of resisting bending stresses.

It's pretty standard for the alternator to be providing the outer ears. That is the configuration in this case.

So I am past all of this, in case it was missed I had to unbolt the bracket that supports the air conditioning pipes and my opinion is that there is no reason that bracket couldn't have simply been located 1/2" forward of where it is so the clearance to remove the bolt exists.

I would be VERY surprised to see that this was changed in any subsequent model year. For US producion, model year 2007 was when Yaris was introduced, although it was in production in Japan prior. Anyway, it is not in Toyota's nature to do mid-cycle changes. I've been at a supplier where we had considerable cost-savings proposals to offer and Toyota wasn't interested because the system was in production and they did not have resources assigned for design support once it was in production. (This is also likely part of the reason why the recall response was disappointing)

Without the bracket removed, I thought the bolt should've come out with the boss since I was able to see the first thread or two, but it apparently was still engaged in the engine block casting enough to prevent removing the alternator.
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:17 AM   #22
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


so now you go and spoil the thread where we get to beat up on engineers.

Just kidding.

I had read the bracket bit previously but wasn't aware that solved the problem. I thought you still had a problem after that.

Great to hear it was solved long ago.

to mid cycle changes; it would be nice if everybody did that. Don't know how many times I had to hunt production dates or VIN just to buy a part because of it.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:11 AM   #23
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


Biased opinion, I've been a Toyota tech for 5+ years.

They kept the same setup on most of the cars with that engine, atleast through the 2011 model year. Sometimes things like this are there simply because they needed to make something fit and serviceability was an afterthought. However, Toyota as a brand has made leaps and bounds in making their cars serviceable over the generations.

There isn't a week that goes by that I don't praise the heavens that I work on Toyota's.

Try changing the oil and filter in a VW in the driveway and you will know what I mean.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:24 PM   #24
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


I worked for GM for 26 years and I do agree that these type applications were designed for "ease of assembly" on the assembly line. Granted, the engine was assembled actually "off-line" in the engine shop area, then transported to a "marriage point" to be placed within a frame or uni-body. That was a good point made at looking at this application and figuring out how to "reverse engineer" this. I know, a lot to remove to just change out the alternator, but maybe necessary.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:31 PM   #25
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


Here's a simple example of idiotic engineering...

I recently went to replace the front brakes pads & rotors on my nephew's 92 Honda Accord. It turns out that the IDIOT ENGINEERS at Honda bolted the brake rotor to the INSIDE of the front hub assembly. Any of you who have ever worked on FWD cars know what that means.

Unbelievable.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:18 PM   #26
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


23 years as a GM tech. I put up with this crap everyday. All I can say as a Tech to a engineer, How's it feel? Throw the manual away and think outside the box. Figure out a way to raise the engine and pull the bolt. Good Luck!
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:13 AM   #27
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


Do you want an example of idiotic engineering? To change the headlight or front directional lamp in a 2006 Buick Lucerne you have to remove the grill, the bumper, an inner wheel well, the fascia underneath the car, etc.
Check GM instructions here :
http://www.mediafire.com/?qaubeshvn5p5e9u

Just another way GM tries to kill the shady tree mechanic and ensure you bring your vehicle in to their dealers. (FOR A LIGHT BULB????)
I changed my own and saved $300.
Soon you will have to bring your car in to the dealer to get the gas filer cap opened.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:42 PM   #28
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


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Originally Posted by polarzak
Do you want an example of idiotic engineering? To change the headlight or front directional lamp in a 2006 Buick Lucerne you have to remove the grill, the bumper, an inner wheel well, the fascia underneath the car, etc.
Check GM instructions here :
http://www.mediafire.com/?qaubeshvn5p5e9u

Just another way GM tries to kill the shady tree mechanic and ensure you bring your vehicle in to their dealers. (FOR A LIGHT BULB????)
I changed my own and saved $300.
Soon you will have to bring your car in to the dealer to get the gas filer cap opened.
Yet another excuse to slam professional mechanics. Not everyone knows how, or wants to work on their vehicle. Some people want nothing more than to fill it up with gas and turn the key. Or is that not ok?
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:27 PM   #29
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


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Yet another excuse to slam professional mechanics. Not everyone knows how, or wants to work on their vehicle. Some people want nothing more than to fill it up with gas and turn the key. Or is that not ok?
Master, I dont think hes trying to necessarily "slam"mechs- his point, even if you ARE the type that knows only to fill er up and press the pedal, no logic for Detroit (or Torino, or Leipseg, or.....) to go out of their way to make things hard- even for the pro's, eh? Like the $300 required to get in a new bulb- do you want a job like that? Would that add virtue to a pro mech's profession?
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:30 PM   #30
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Why I went into engineering/stupid things engineers do with car designs


No..he is on here to call mech's crooks..he has a history.

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