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Old 06-05-2011, 09:46 PM   #16
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What would you do---Honda?


In 2009 my son bought a new Honda Accord--Loaded. It has now got 50K miles and at 20K he had a brake problem, cost him about $200.00 for rotors! Pads were good! ride with him and look at his riding style. my nephew went through a set of rotors pretty quick because he would rest his foot on the brake pedal to be "prepared". Unfortunately this causes excessive heat on the rotor and causes them to warp. I say watch him because if you find it is the problem you can correct it before it happens again.

At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00. I would find out what was causing this... Was it something you could have pressed the warranty on?
It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
It is unfortunately common with different vehicles. the Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity. It is a pain to constantly have to top it off but in the end the thinking is the fresh engine lubricant will allow the vehicle to last longer. Check with where your oil is changed... Some will top off between oil changes for free
THREE repair jobs that he had to pay for--and get this----the dealer stated Honda knew of the problems and there should have been a recall, but charges will be refunded if Honda decides to do so!!
To me, this is Unbelievable--looks like they are selling a name instead of a quality product The blame is on us as Americans... Remember when Honda came to the US and everyone wanted the car because it was cheap and good on gas... Than they built quality and people went back... now they need to continually improve and the constant improvements will always come with other issues

Sad to say that I have a friend that has had similar problems with a new Honda Accord.
I suggested that he contact Honda headquarters and file a complaint. What else could he do? Not much you can do for those problems... Just research next time a little more.

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Originally Posted by DrHicks View Post

Unfortunately, this car is crap. There's NO WAY it should be having these kinds of problems before it had 50,000 miles.

And there is absolutely NO WAY you or your son should be footing the entire bill for all this. One of the main reasons for spending the big bucks for a new car is the WARRANTY.

Check into Lemon Laws. Also, check into whether there is some sort of class-action lawsuit going with these cars.
Everyone wants to jumo to the Lemon law and unfortunately this vehicle in NO WAY COMES CLOSE TO QUALIFYING!
First... need to know why the rotors had problems at 20K... My guess is they said they were warped and the owner said if one was warped replace them... I would bet it was the front rotors.
Second- Oil consumption is a design of the engine... Need to know more about the second repair to say more about it

Now where I live (Each state is different) you have 20 months or 18000 miles for any of the following to happen
  • A brake or steering failure that was not corrected after the first repair attempt, and that causes the vehicle to fail safety inspection; or
  • Any one problem that substantially impairs the use and market value of the vehicle that was not corrected in four repair attempts; or
  • Any number of problems that substantially impair the use and market value of the vehicle that have caused it to be out of service for a cumulative total of 30 or more days.

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Old 06-06-2011, 07:59 AM   #17
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What would you do---Honda?


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Originally Posted by Docwhitley View Post
At 35K miles engine started missing and check engine light came on. He took it to dealer and the charge was $279.00. I would find out what was causing this... Was it something you could have pressed the warranty on?
I don't know how at 32k anything engine related could not be covered under warranty. This is not 1972 where plugs and points needed to be adjusted and/or changed every 30k.


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It also uses 1 to 2 quarts of oil between changes. They stated that was normal!
It is unfortunately common with different vehicles. the Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity. It is a pain to constantly have to top it off but in the end the thinking is the fresh engine lubricant will allow the vehicle to last longer. Check with where your oil is changed... Some will top off between oil changes for free
That's BS, plain and simple. The only car I've had that used oil between changes was a 1986 Mustang with a beat 4-cyl that had 175k. And I think it leaked most of it out and burnt a bit. The rest I check every once in a while and go.

I have had:
2000 Explorer, had 78k or so when I sold it, 0 oil usage with 5k changes on Mobil 1.
04 G35 that had 94k when I traded it - used 0 oil at 3,750 mile change intrervals on dino oil
2010 Taurus SHO (turbo engine, high compression, 5w20, etc) - 24k now, 0 oil usage at 7,500 mile changes.

Wife has a 2003 Escape with just under 100k that has, guess what, 0 oil usage at 5k changes.

I know the manufacturers like to say 1qt every 1,000 miles is "normal", that's an awful lot of oil. In the case of 5-7,500 oil change intervals, you would "change" the oil before you took it in for an oil change.

Unless you are beating on it or running at high RPMs there is no way you should have to add oil to a properly running engine between changes. Especially a new one.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:44 AM   #18
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What would you do---Honda?


Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity.

Where, In The World, did you come up with that Did you read this somewhere or was you an owner of a VW.
In the 80's I bought a practically new VW Rabbit. The owners manual stated that it was normal for the engine to use 1 quart of oil in 800 miles and it did.
I guess the class action lawsuit against VW made them correct their blunder because after the recall to replace valveguide seals, I was using NO OIL in 5K miles
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:53 AM   #19
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What would you do---Honda?


There is a reason the Accord has fallen to near-bottom-of-the-pack in midsize sedan rankings: their build quality just isn't what it used to be. I would agree that any burning of oil is not a normal occurrence, and indicates something is wrong.

Has he tried going to any OTHER dealers? One Honda dealer may be completely different from another Honda dealer. One may like to squeeze every dime out of its customers, while the other may understand the value of keeping that customer coming back, and not charge him for things that should be warrantied. That should be the first recourse. It's like getting a second opinion from the doctor.

After that, I would try to contact consumer affairs with Honda. I've never dealt (or known anyone to have dealt) with Honda's consumer affairs, but I do have a long history with Hyundai/Kia and know several people who have had great results and cooperation from their consumer affairs departments when a dealer is trying to squeeze a customer.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:03 AM   #20
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What would you do---Honda?


I don't know how at 32k anything engine related could not be covered under warranty. This is not 1972 where plugs and points needed to be adjusted and/or changed every 30k.
So lets give you a couple of things that can cause problems at those low miles
1- Not tightening the gas cap Causes an air leakage that will cause the engine light to come on
2- Changing an exhaust pipe
3- chipping it out
4- low oil

As I said we do not know what the mechanic said the problem was but I do have 2 nephews around that age and either of the above is possible with them. that is why I said we would need to know more info. If the problem was that he left his gas cap off and drove around should the dealership be held responsible?






That's BS, plain and simple. The only car I've had that used oil between changes was a 1986 Mustang with a beat 4-cyl that had 175k. And I think it leaked most of it out and burnt a bit. The rest I check every once in a while and go.

I have had:
2000 Explorer, had 78k or so when I sold it, 0 oil usage with 5k changes on Mobil 1.
04 G35 that had 94k when I traded it - used 0 oil at 3,750 mile change intrervals on dino oil
2010 Taurus SHO (turbo engine, high compression, 5w20, etc) - 24k now, 0 oil usage at 7,500 mile changes.

Wife has a 2003 Escape with just under 100k that has, guess what, 0 oil usage at 5k changes.

I know the manufacturers like to say 1qt every 1,000 miles is "normal", that's an awful lot of oil. In the case of 5-7,500 oil change intervals, you would "change" the oil before you took it in for an oil change.

Do you change your own oil? and measure the amount in and out? Have you been trained by different manufacturers on what the engines do or dont do? If we want our engines to work better and last longer than the manufacturer had to discover how to get rid of Sludge... the only way is to have it burn off. Since you have those vehicles try testing them and see if you are using any oil... my guess is you will be surprised... also if it is not showing blue smoke it is not burning in the engine.... I will explain a little more- motor oil is designed from crude oil... it is heated at a high temp causing it to separate... top will be things like paint thinner... middle=gas and bottom motor oil. now in the motor oil section you will also have other hydro carbons that are the aromatics and solvents. If you were to re-refine the oil you would remove these from the oil and have just straight oil and that will not evaporate. Now the aromatics and solvents will evaporate at a lower temperature. So again... ALL ENGINES "BURN" OIL.. Well actually the correct thing to say is it evaporates the solvents and aromatics that are in the chemical composition of oil... spill some on your engine and you will notice it next time you drive... if it burns outside the engine... Wshy not inside?


Unless you are beating on it or running at high RPMs there is no way you should have to add oil to a properly running engine between changes. Especially a new one.

In all of my vehicles
04 Equinox
04 Ram
2010 Jeep Limited
1968 MK3000 Austin Healey replica with Chevy 350 engine
79 xs 650 custom built chopper
2006 Harley Sportster
NONE LEAK OIL!
I do the following.... Empty the oil... Measure the amount... then measure the amount in. I have a log for each to make sure it is with in an acceptable range that has been developed by monitoring the usage over several oil changes. I am not a mechanic by trade... just in my garage but, from doing the work myself I was able to realize different things and one of them is the amount of oil a car uses....


ONE MORE THING- When you have someplace change your oil make sure of the level 1-2 days later... why? well the dealership needs to make money and there is only 2 ways to do it... time and material... So they put oil in and check the oil level and out you go. Now what if they did not fill your filter all the way? there is a half a qt... what if they took it just to the bottom fill line but, you like it on the top... there is another qt.... now you drive it for 4 weeks and some of the carbons have evaporated and the filter is full... and you top the oil off... WHAT IT TOOK 2 QTS!!!! sorry but in reality it was only 1/2 a qt..... so Check it after a couple of days to get an accurate reading
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:14 AM   #21
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What would you do---Honda?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giles View Post
Engines are being designed to run at a higher temperature which causes oil to burn away instead of loosing the viscosity.

Where, In The World, did you come up with that Did you read this somewhere or was you an owner of a VW.
In the 80's I bought a practically new VW Rabbit. The owners manual stated that it was normal for the engine to use 1 quart of oil in 800 miles and it did.
I guess the class action lawsuit against VW made them correct their blunder because after the recall to replace valveguide seals, I was using NO OIL in 5K miles

No actually I got the information from doing my own maintenance and knowing about the chemical make up of oil which I explained in a post that I did when you were writing this.

with the solvents that are in the oil and the engines running at a higher temperature it will causes the solvents to evaporate (these are the engine cleaners that are in oil). Were you doing your own oil changes? I have NEVER had a car that I would get the same amount of oil out as I got in and I have been changing oil and watching it since I was 13 years old when my mom taught me. I also noticed that in the 90's the engines started to burn a little more (about 1/2 qt more).
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:30 AM   #22
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What would you do---Honda?


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Originally Posted by polarzak View Post
I have only bought GM cars.
Me too, until I bought my first import. Never again will I own anything by GM. I'd buy a Ford without hesitation, but I'll likely never touch another GM product.

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My girlfriend back in the 70s had a Toyota Corolla. It was a piece of junk.
Weren't just about all cars from the 70s pieces of junk? Using a 1970s econobox as a marker of modern engineering and manufacturing is not an accurate comparison.

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Sorry but that is my feeling also in Japanese and Korean cars, and I like to buy American,
(I know some are made in the US)
Beyond being made in the U.S., many of the "foreign" brands of cars are designed, engineered, built and sold strictly for the U.S. market by U.S. employees. You can buy a "Japanese" car designed and made by Americans, or an "American" car designed by Italians and made by Mexicans (the case of some of Chrysler's upcoming products). The whole U.S. vs. Foreign argument is so blurred that it can't even exist in a knowledgeable conversation anymore. Nobody is a Domestic or Foreign brand, they are all global conglomerates, which sometimes work together and blur the lines even more. (i.e. Pontiac Vibe was a Toyota Matrix)
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:20 PM   #23
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What would you do---Honda?


Sorry for the late post. What does Honda recommend for the spark plug replacement? If it is under the time and mileage, they are covered under warantee. If the time or mileage has exceeded the recommended service interval, they are not covered under any warantee, emissions, power train...
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:41 PM   #24
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What would you do---Honda?


yes, and ford escape is nothing more than re-badged Mazda protege, that's why it runs so well. so were a bunch of very reliable ford vehicles - ranger, escort, and what the heck was that sports 2 door coupe..., oh yes, probe.
have to agree with other poster. nothing was more reliable than mid 90s true japs. that's when they went greedy and started dancing with politicians, and went for "local" manufacturing and outsourcing to the 3rd world countries. there's a bunch of "japs" that never even saw Japan, and parts are from all over the world. and that's when **** starts happening. look at Hyundai - yes, again - and see what happens, when you stick to the motherland production with solid workforce. and ford is bloody turncoat. look at their European cars. nothing better to ask for. exemplary.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:49 PM   #25
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Sorry for the late post. What does Honda recommend for the spark plug replacement? If it is under the time and mileage, they are covered under warantee. If the time or mileage has exceeded the recommended service interval, they are not covered under any warantee, emissions, power train...


Spark plugs are considered a wear item and in most states are limited to 12 months 12000 miles but also carry the warranty from the Spark plug manufacturer themselves
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:06 PM   #26
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No, the Mazda tribute is a rebadged ford escape. The tributes 4 cyl and 3.0 v6 are ford engines and the transaxle is also ford. Ford's worst case oil consumption guideline is currently 1 qt in 1000 miles. Never actually seen one that bad.
As to reprogramming the powertrain control module after a plug change? Entirely possible. They update dwell and burn times for the individual ignition coils (sometimes it will cause plugs ti crack). I dont do it often but once in a while... The ford diagnostic software lets you know if there's an update. Honda is similar I'm sure.
Honda brake rotors are paper thin. We replace them on every used car we sell no matter what.
I have a 96 and a 97 grand marquis, both use about 1/2 qt every 3k miles. The 96 has 278k and the 97 has 183k.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:07 PM   #27
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At least for Ford, the spark plugs are part of the 5/60 powertrain warranty in almost every case (just for comparison).
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:16 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docwhitley View Post
So lets give you a couple of things that can cause problems at those low miles
1- Not tightening the gas cap Causes an air leakage that will cause the engine light to come on
2- Changing an exhaust pipe
3- chipping it out
4- low oil
I would hope that prior to taking it in you would read the manual and try the gas cap. It's been in my last few cars. Check engine - check the gas cap.

From the tone I doubt that they hotrodded an Accord. But stranger things have happened.

Quote:
If the problem was that he left his gas cap off and drove around should the dealership be held responsible?
No but I would hope most would be nice about it and say "you left the gas cap off. This one's on us, any more and we'll have to charge you". That's good customer service.
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Do you change your own oil? and measure the amount in and out? Have you been trained by different manufacturers on what the engines do or dont do?
No - far easier and cheaper (when you factor in the time) to drop it off at the dealer and for $29 (without tire rotation) they change the oil, top off the fluids and do the "inspection". For $49 (or so) they do that + rotate the tires. Not worth my time or effort to do it myself any more. And if they screw it up, it's on them, no warranty issues.

I know I check it usually a day or so after I get it back and then sometime along the road. Never down to the add line.

The rest of the stuff I'll do myself as I can- that which does not require specialized tools. But for oil changes, just check it and go, change when they say to. Has worked for me as all my cars have had near or over 100k without any hint of engine issues. Been around cars for a long while now and would probably be turning wrenches if it were not for a career in IT.

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ONE MORE THING- When you have someplace change your oil make sure of the level 1-2 days later... why? well the dealership needs to make money and there is only 2 ways to do it... time and material... So they put oil in and check the oil level and out you go. Now what if they did not fill your filter all the way? there is a half a qt... what if they took it just to the bottom fill line but, you like it on the top... there is another qt.... now you drive it for 4 weeks and some of the carbons have evaporated and the filter is full... and you top the oil off... WHAT IT TOOK 2 QTS!!!! sorry but in reality it was only 1/2 a qt..... so Check it after a couple of days to get an accurate reading
I guess we've been lucky - the dealers the wife and I use are good. No issues with this. I doubt a dealer would routinely short change their customers. Not in their best interests long term....
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
yes, and ford escape is nothing more than re-badged Mazda protege, that's why it runs so well. so were a bunch of very reliable ford vehicles - ranger, escort, and what the heck was that sports 2 door coupe..., oh yes, probe.
Funny, the powertrains are Ford - Duratec 3.0 and their 2.0 (IIRC). Transmission is the CD4e or the 6F35 in the new ones. The running gear is mostly Ford as well. They have been great autos.

And I've had a couple Mustangs that were quite reliable as well.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #30
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And having worked on lots of probes over the years, I wouldn't take one for free. I'm very glad ford didn't pursue them as the 'new' mustang. They kicked the idea around. The Mazda b4000 & 3000 were just ford rangers. The only changes were fender flares, dash pad, and badges. Anyway, I changed oil on my commuter car today (99 camry 4 cyl) and it used about 1 qt in 5000 miles. All hwy, 5w30 blend (whatever's in the bulk tank at work).

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