secrets to getting lug nuts off?

phantasm72

Thanks for all the advice.
Ill definately upgrade my lug wrench and get a proper socket and bar
I ended up having to go down to the garage to get them off. Turns out, on one side, all five nuts we crossthreaded! Obviously I got the new guy when the tire was last removed.
But anyway, all is well now
Cheers!

Giles

I have had that happen before. Lesson learned for me. Any time I have a wheel removed--tire replacement---I instruct the store owner to not let his mechanic put the lugnut in the socket and install. If they are too lazy to start the nuts by hand, they don't need my business!
I have never had a complaint for this request.
About 6 or 8 years ago, I had all my tires balanced by a tire store that I was a longtime friend of the owner. He knew my instructions but my wife didn't remind him. Anyway, they broke TWO studs off and crossthreaded TWO more. The store owner told my wife they were that way when she came in
He told her there would be a charge of about $45.00 to replace them She called me and when I go there, from work, the s+++ hit the fan.
Luckily I lived a short distance and drove home with THREE nuts tightened as good as possible. I made a tool to remove the studs and I haven't been back
Just another reason I am a Do It Yourselfer

sciron

It DOES matter.

The manufacturer specifies a certain required torque to achieve a specific clamping pressure. This torque specification is based on clean dry threads. Therefore, anything on the threads will change the clamping force based on the torque spec. Dirt, rust, oil, silicon, anti-seize, grease, and pixie dust will all change the clamping force at a specific torque regardless if you are using a torque wrench. You're not supposed to put it on.

I'm not afraid of using a "speck" of anti-seize, it's not recommended for you to put it on your lug studs and I gave this guy my advice not to do so. It seems that you are afraid I contradicted your advice since you had to resort to the "Pixie Dust" comment..

sciron

I've been working on and restoring cars since the 1970's. This advice is how I'm teaching my son also. Always start critical fasteners by hand to make sure they are threaded properly. It's how I was taught as well.

beerdog

As stated use a 6pt socket, but get an impact grade. This will ensure you don't crack the socket.

Lug nuts should always be started by hand and finished with a manual torque wrench in a criss-cross pattern. On TV You will see auto assembly factories use power tools, but those are $20,000 servo motor controlled wrenches with constant data capture. BUT...they are still not as accurate as a good hand torque wrench.

beerdog

anti-sieze is mainly for disimiliar metals. Like when you put steel bolts in aluminum. I once got anti-sieze on my lug nuts by mistake and they all came loose within 24 hrs. I would be suprised if any manufacturer recommends doing this.

Bigplanz

Looks like somebody researched this anti-seize question quite a bit. Check out the links in this thread. Lot's more than you probably ever want to know.

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/13070.html

ukrkoz

so someone really forced them onto studs USING IMPACT WRENCH.

can't do this by hand. phantasm, afraid, you really have to look into studs replacement now. if someone messed up lug nuts that bad, it WILL mess up studs either. that's why i like those cross shaped lug wrenches so much. hand start it, spin it on with wrench...

FIVE studs for a neon? kidding me? tiny car...

anyhow. let me pour some oil into the impact wrench discussion fire here.

i have 1200 lb/f (yes, torque is measured in pounds per sq foot, not other way around) impact wrench and 60 something gallon compressor that cranks 120 psi. that impact wrench will NEVER tighten lug nuts well enough. i tried that when i first got it, and found that every single lug nut needs to be hand tightened thereafter, or they come loose. alloys, steelies, whatever, same result. elbow torque works the best so far.

oh, i still say, you have wrong thread lugs, or simply bad quality ones. right pitch thread, poorly machined, cut through your studs.

ok, now, not to foget to unsubsribe from this topic, ha-ha.

sciron

Thanks for the link... that's 7 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Leah Frances

I've changed more tires than I care to remember (mostly auto-crossing). With a decent jack and hand tools I can change all four in 20 minutes. With my handy-dandy impact wrenches (I've got a 12volt one and a high quality air-tool) I can only knock a few minutes off. Mostly they are good for breaking the lug nuts loose. For going back on, I ONLY use them on their LOWEST setting to spin the lugs finger tight; after hand-starting them, of course. And lastly, I ALWAYS torque to specs with a torque wrench.

All this being said. When I was putting snow tires on my subaru this fall I still managed to cross-thread two lug nuts. My local tire shop replaced the messed-up lugs and found that despite my best efforts the poor quality (aftermarket) lug nuts were causing the problem.

__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.

Firefighter3244

Since you got em off already I'll just say this,

Check to see if you have a Discount Tire near you, they have 800 in the US

They hand thread them at start, use a gun with a yellow stick that only
allows the gun to torque em to 60 ft lbs and then they use a good Ole
Torque Wrench to manufacture specs....

Plus they have Free Tire repairs, And 4 tire rotations weather you bought the tires there or from somewhere else...

I'm No Spam, Or troll... It's just a good place thats worth mentioning...

Steeler99

well, being that this generated far more posts than I could have ever imagined to see about lug nuts...I'll throw my opinion out for what it's worth.

Hand tighten always, there's just no other way. You only see NASCAR do it because they're special lugs that are glued on the rim.

Antiseize, well, I don't use that on any vehicle studs...I've never had an issue removing lug nuts from a vehicle.

I do use it on my boat trailer, and used it quite heavily. That's only because it's in and out of saltwater and the corrosion that causes is unreal.

sciron

Proper Lug Nut assembly is serious stuff

Mort

As long as we're splitting hairs, its pounds per linear foot, not per square foot.

As a tire sales and service professional (I guess...), my professional opinion is that compressed air is the bomb. Some lug nuts require a bit more grunt to get off (pre-97 8-lug Fords that have rusted studs come to mind), but unless it is seriously cross threaded or against a soft aluminum wheel (2004-up F-150s), everything comes off quite easily. Anti-seize will not cause a wheel to fall off, if it did, we wouldn't use it. If you have had a wheel come off, chances are it was actually caused by:
- Not having the wheel mated to the hub when torquing;
- Using the wrong style of lugnuts (acorn with a ball-seat wheel, etc.);
- Having frost or ice on the wheel mating surface or the lug nut seats;

Also, I can't see how not hand threading the lugnuts first would make your life any easier. Sounds like a cross-thread waiting to happen.

beerdog

You always increase the risk of cross threading AND destroying the thread on an any threaded fastner when you start it with a power tool. Your reward is higher speed and better productivity. When you start by hand you get immediat feedback that you started crossthreading and will almost always stop. Plus, the human hand rarely poduces enough torque to destroy the thead. A 100ft-lb impact can easily run the thread down cross threaded. Is it worth risking that just to save a few seconds?