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Old 07-20-2011, 02:06 PM   #16
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Oil Change Question


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kerosine in engine??
Yup it's a great solvent I know lots of people who have been doing it for years



You would recommend someone switch to a full synthetic oil in a vehicle with over a 150k on it ?

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Old 07-21-2011, 07:34 AM   #17
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About a month ago I ran a tank of gas with Sea Foam fuel injector/throttle body cleaner. I changed the plugs in my truck just before as well as flushed and filled with fresh coolant the radiator.

I did this work about halfway through oil changes. I had the oil changed in my truck yesterday and it came out black. It never has done that before and I was only about 400 miles over the 3000 mile limit so the question is would the engine cleaner cause that oil to be black? Did it pick up all the gunk and deposit it into the oil?

Thanks.
Yes, it could do that, and for a number of reasons. Bottom line... I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you (I can go into detail if you really want me to).

If I were you, I'd simply keep a very close eye on the color of my engine oil during this next cycle or two. Black oil isn't necessarily a big deal. If it smells burnt, that's a different story.
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:44 AM   #18
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Personally, I think Amsoil & Royal Purple are more hype than anything else. (I had a guy at a parts store recently tell me he gets 10% more power out of his car with Royal Purple. Pure BS.) They're perfectly good synthetic oils, for sure. But they're really pushing the name. 35 years ago, Amsoil was definitely ahead of the curve. But we now have a whole host of good synthetic oils to choose from.

One of the problems with Amsoil is that, when it came out decades ago, they were making absolutely outrageous claims about its performance - that 25,000 mile guarantee, for instance. It's true that many oils will stand up that long, under certain circumstances. But the oil isn't the problem. It's all the dirt & crap that gets into it - especially on a farm, like where I grew up. You CANNOT keep oil clean that long. Under any conditions but the cleanest and purest ones, you'd be a complete fool to go 25,000 miles between oil changes.


After many years of running synthetic & synthetic blend oils in everything from trucks to lawn-mowers, I've noticed several things...

1. If you have brittle gaskets or seals, synthetic will leak worse than dino. If you run synthetic oil for the first time in an engine that never leaked oil, it will sometimes "find" places to leak.

2. You can switch back and forth, from synthetic to dino oils, with no problems. I'm not sure why you would, but you can.

3. If you live where winters get brutally cold, synthetic oil lets the engine turn over MUCH easier in extreme cold. Much better on those frigid mornings.

4. I'd never recommend using synthetic oil in an engine that leaks or consumes oil. It just costs too much. Besides, when you have to add oil all the time (every couple hundred mies) you're "changing" your oil constantly anyway.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:04 PM   #19
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I run royal purple in my wife and moms cars and cant say anything bad about it but I put them on synthetic before they hit 30k miles. I look at it as a sound investment on our investments........does it really matter maybe.....maybe not. I know when synthetic oils first came about they were junk that caused more problems than they were worth but times have changed. I agree with you 100% about dirt in the oil.........thats one thing you cant change even if you buy the best filters in the world...your oil gets dirty. I know a few people who use lucas and have sent it in for analyis and it always comes back with over 85% original viscosity but you'll never catch me running anything past 6k.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:28 PM   #20
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I run royal purple in my wife and moms cars and cant say anything bad about it but I put them on synthetic before they hit 30k miles. I look at it as a sound investment on our investments........does it really matter maybe.....maybe not. I know when synthetic oils first came about they were junk that caused more problems than they were worth but times have changed. I agree with you 100% about dirt in the oil.........thats one thing you cant change even if you buy the best filters in the world...your oil gets dirty. I know a few people who use lucas and have sent it in for analyis and it always comes back with over 85% original viscosity but you'll never catch me running anything past 6k.
When we were doing our lawn-mowing business, I ran straight 30W dino oil in our mowers, and added Lucas Synthetic Stabilizer. After I started doing that, I never had an engine failure. It might or might not have had anything to do with the Lucas stuff, but hey, for $14 per bottle it was well worth it. Kinda hard to argue with results.
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:34 PM   #21
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If you have a real concern about the appearance of the oil, take a sample and send it to an oil analysis lab. Every 20K, I send a sample. A good one will send you a report listing all of the characteristics of the oil including fuel dilution, viscosity shear, metallics suspended in it, minerals related to antifreeze that may be getting into the oil as well as plain old dirt. They'll also tell you how well the oil is performing as far as detergent additives and anti-foam agents and other things. This is not an endorsement, because I'm sure there are other labs out there that can do the same, but I personally have used this company when I was trying to resolve a fuel dilution issue on a diesel engine.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Once you have a test report in hand, you will know for certain whether you have a problem or not. If you read performance tests on engine oils, it's shocking who the good performers are and which ones are so poor, you won't put them in your neighbor's lawn mower.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:45 PM   #22
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Doc, before you screw up that Ford any worse, let me give ya a few hints. I am a certified Tribologist. Research that one if you don't know what it is. I've worked in some of the most prestigious research labs in the world.
In regards to Seafoam. It is nothing more than pale oil(read a 20 viscosity light oil)naptha, and isoproypyl alcohol (read rubbing alcohol). There is absolutely NOTHING in the mix that will remove carbon but there's a lot of folks that will try. HINT, carbon burns at 8-900 Kelvin, a temperature your engine will NEVER see and survive. This mix has no place being in any engine component- oil, gas, or the intake. Many an engine have been destroyed by dimwits cramming this crap down the intake cracking valves, pistons, breaking ring packs, etc. In the oil, the alcohol literally strips lubrication. It can damage seals by striping the fats from the seal materials. In the gas, it brings nothing but a little higher combustion temps via the naptha but you have to remember, your cats are also having to cook off the pale oil or they will become coated and self destruct. This is a well documented scenario in the auto industry.
The color of the oil means little. If one change of the oil suddenly gets blacker than the previous change, the new oil is doing a better job at cleaning, that's all. The newer base oils and additive packages are much better than anything you've ever bought and they keep getting better. Depending on which Pennzoil you bought, the probablilites are high that it is one of the newer multi-base oils that they have come up with. Different base oils have different characteristics. The Gp I's have high polarity to the metals, Gp IIs have a fair polarity to the metals and a stronger film strength. The Gp IIIs have a very strong film strength but do not mix with the additive packages so a mineral oil is used as a binder. The Gp IV are not as common as they once were. They have very strong film strength and don't mix well with the additive package. They have either too strong polar positive or polar negative properties. Both require other additives to keep them in balance. The Gp Vs are everything else but are primarily the esters. The polyol esters are the most common and are a reaction of a fatty acid and an alcohol. There are NO 100% ester based oils out there and you wouldn't want it anyway. Esters have great solvency but cannot handle any water condensate like that of an engine in winter. The best oils out there are the blends if you are looking for the lowest wear metals. If it wears the Ford spec 930/931 or 945 it's as good an oil as you can buy.
Synthetic oils are a great way of the oil companies to drain your wallet. They provide no more lubricity, no more "protection", will not yield more fuel mileage providing the Kinematic viscosity is the same, will not make your engine go one mile farther than a normal OTC API motor oil. Avoid them unless you just like throwing money away. It's almost laughable the advertising hype about an oil being 100% synthetic- there is no such thing and won't be. Every base oil has an issue that has to be dealt with like the Gp IIIs and Gp IVs that require a mineral oil to bind the additive package to the base oil. No base oil is fabulous and no additive package is fabulous. Motor oil is a balance of base oil and additives. Adding anything to them and you can throw the entire chemistry out of balance. You can also have additive clash which will pretty much destroy the engine.
Want the best oil for your engine? Look in the owner manual and buy what it says. Engine technologies START with the lubrication long before the bore spacing, materials used, etc and even before the white paper is brought out to start the design. Might wanna research ILSAC so you have a clue.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:15 PM   #23
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You're hired.

Thanks for the information. I don't normally run anything through the motor, I just thought for tune up time it might help.

I do find it odd that the industry would produce products that could potentially worsen the outcome it's intended to correct. Something isn't adding up.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:37 PM   #24
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You're hired.

Thanks for the information. I don't normally run anything through the motor, I just thought for tune up time it might help.

I do find it odd that the industry would produce products that could potentially worsen the outcome it's intended to correct. Something isn't adding up.
I feel the same way every time I think about eating out. There is NOTHING at Chilis that contains a reasonable amount of calories. Except maybe a shot of Patron. I've been really happy with the Blackstone tests we've done on our cars. It's fun to see the real data.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:14 PM   #25
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Synthetic oils are a great way of the oil companies to drain your wallet. They provide no more lubricity, no more "protection", will not yield more fuel mileage providing the Kinematic viscosity is the same, will not make your engine go one mile farther than a normal OTC API motor oil. Avoid them unless you just like throwing money away.
The one thing Synthetic Oil will do is allow for easier starting on extremely cold days. Having lived in frigid Minnesota for many years, that was invaluable.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:32 PM   #26
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Doc, there are FEW additives out there that have any value in the bottle. There is only one that I would say has value for an oil additive and it's Auto-Rx. It's a mix of lanolin esters that is used to clean the oil system slowly. It also restores the seal swell so any small leaks can be fixed with it. With gas additives. If you want a fuel system cleaner there are the POEs and the Stoddard Solvents. Unfortunately, most of the fuel system cleaners are nothing more than naptha in the can/bottle. Techron is the only one out there certified for use by all US auto makers. It's a POE.
DrHicks, yes at one time that was the case, but not today. You also can't go by the viscosity to think that a 5w-xx will flow better at cold temps than a 10w-xx. You need, in particular your part of the world, to look for the specs of the oil you are considering by going to the makers website. What is of value to you is the CCS rating of the oil. CCS means Cold Crank Simulator. It's actual test of how many amps it takes to turn the engine over fast enough for it to fire and the oil still providing lubrication. The numerical number is the actual viscosity but given in Centipoise. It might surprise you that some of the 10w oils are better than the 5w oils in fridgid/arctic conditions. With todays pour point depressants, mostly PMAs, the cold is not near an issue as is corrosion that the synthetics allow. Might want to see what your current oil is rated at before the winter months. FWIW, years back the synthetics were mostly a PAO base oil. But the ethylene gas used to make them has become hard to find and expensive. I'm not aware of any PAO based oils anymore. Mobil One hasn't been since Katrina when Mobil lost one of their PAO plants. They all are pretty much using the Gp III base oils for the synthetics. M1 does contain a splash of an ultra high vis PAO but not enough to matter. If you have a flat tappet engine and are using Mobil One in 5w-30, I'd suggest finding another oil. It's been failing IVA testing now for about 2 years. If you have a roller cam engine, no problem but the testing has been coming back with wear metals 3-4 times what is allowable. If you're a Mobil fan, use their EP version instead.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:00 PM   #27
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DrHicks, yes at one time that was the case, but not today. You also can't go by the viscosity to think that a 5w-xx will flow better at cold temps than a 10w-xx. You need, in particular your part of the world, to look for the specs of the oil you are considering by going to the makers website. What is of value to you is the CCS rating of the oil. CCS means Cold Crank Simulator. It's actual test of how many amps it takes to turn the engine over fast enough for it to fire and the oil still providing lubrication. The numerical number is the actual viscosity but given in Centipoise. It might surprise you that some of the 10w oils are better than the 5w oils in fridgid/arctic conditions. With todays pour point depressants, mostly PMAs, the cold is not near an issue as is corrosion that the synthetics allow. Might want to see what your current oil is rated at before the winter months. FWIW, years back the synthetics were mostly a PAO base oil. But the ethylene gas used to make them has become hard to find and expensive. I'm not aware of any PAO based oils anymore. Mobil One hasn't been since Katrina when Mobil lost one of their PAO plants. They all are pretty much using the Gp III base oils for the synthetics. M1 does contain a splash of an ultra high vis PAO but not enough to matter. If you have a flat tappet engine and are using Mobil One in 5w-30, I'd suggest finding another oil. It's been failing IVA testing now for about 2 years. If you have a roller cam engine, no problem but the testing has been coming back with wear metals 3-4 times what is allowable. If you're a Mobil fan, use their EP version instead.
I've heard that argument for years, and it always comes from the "lab perspective." But in real life, synthetic oil of the same viscosity will allow an engine to turn easier in extreme cold than will dino oil.

...as a side note, I've rarely bought Mobil 1. Too pricey for what it is/was.
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:03 PM   #28
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I could use some advice for my next oil change coming up shortly. I have a Ford F150 with around 230,000 miles that still uses no oil between changes. No smoking or puffs of smoke either. My "problem" is what seems like dry starts first thing in the morning in any weather. I can hear it before the the oil gauge registers.
My mechanic says it's not good to change oil types with motors as old as mine, and uses bulk oil. Think its a Penzoil 5W30 plain jane oil. After reading some of the above replies, I'm glad I didn't buy into any of those oil additives.
Any recommendations on an oil selection?
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:12 PM   #29
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I could use some advice for my next oil change coming up shortly. I have a Ford F150 with around 230,000 miles that still uses no oil between changes. No smoking or puffs of smoke either. My "problem" is what seems like dry starts first thing in the morning in any weather. I can hear it before the the oil gauge registers.
My mechanic says it's not good to change oil types with motors as old as mine, and uses bulk oil. Think its a Penzoil 5W30 plain jane oil. After reading some of the above replies, I'm glad I didn't buy into any of those oil additives.
Any recommendations on an oil selection?
Keep doing what you've been doing, and add some Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:57 PM   #30
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Sorry, in my opinion, all those additives are a waste of money. I remember when STP was the rage. We would tear down an engine and scrape STP out of the pan with a putty knife. I did use a little sometimes to lube new bearings when I had no white grease.

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