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Old 12-21-2011, 07:04 PM   #46
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Car "stumbles"


Hi
The thing is your vacum is pretty good, the idle sounds to be going up and down so that is why your vacum gauge follows. I really hate the fact that the garage can't get you a strait answer, kudos for doing what you thought was right and refusing the work. Did you check for a vacum leak at the base of the TB? this can be done with a spray bottle and plain water, or a hose...beleive it or not if you have a vacum leak it will suck the water into the intake causing it to run like crap. Have you made a block off plate for the egr? If the cat is partially plugged it can push the EGR pintle off his seat and carbonizing it partially open, this has nothing to do with unplugging the vacum line. At this point I would need to see your O2 voltage (still plugged) and your Map sensor output.

X-mas is coming I'll try to help as much as I can.

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Old 12-22-2011, 02:25 PM   #47
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Hi
The thing is your vacum is pretty good, the idle sounds to be going up and down so that is why your vacum gauge follows. I really hate the fact that the garage can't get you a strait answer, kudos for doing what you thought was right and refusing the work. Did you check for a vacum leak at the base of the TB? this can be done with a spray bottle and plain water, or a hose...beleive it or not if you have a vacum leak it will suck the water into the intake causing it to run like crap. Have you made a block off plate for the egr? If the cat is partially plugged it can push the EGR pintle off his seat and carbonizing it partially open, this has nothing to do with unplugging the vacum line. At this point I would need to see your O2 voltage (still plugged) and your Map sensor output.

X-mas is coming I'll try to help as much as I can.

Regards
Big thanks, Mac. Yes, I did check for vac leak under the TBI- madderafac, I checked for vac leak EVERYWHERE....LOL

I did use the "stethescope" method, as I find it is the most useful, and no flammables hazard. No vac leaks anywhere. Dang.

At a time, I did block of the EGR base. I also did some known cat tests in the past- forget exactly what they were, but they indicated no blockage.

O2 sensor was put in 2 yrs ago- check engine lt went on cuz of a bad O2 sensor, and upon installing new one, no problem. MAP I believe was tested based on Haynes manual test. Its ok. Also, no codes for it. I know "no codes" may not always prove its not at fault.

I was thinking (hard to do these days with internet distractions), maybe a leakdown test? I heard a 1-2-3 " fluctuation in n vac can indicate leaky valves?? What do you think, Mac?
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:38 PM   #48
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Bad valves bounce a vacum gauge. Needle moves really sharply, not what I saw on Youtbe.

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Old 12-23-2011, 01:26 PM   #49
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Bad valves bounce a vacum gauge. Needle moves really sharply, not what I saw on Youtbe.

Regards
Hmmm, ok, good observation. Guess no need to chase that leak down test. ya know, its nice weather out right now (actually, its nice here almost all yrear- LOL), so lemme do that spray water mist at the base of the TBI and confirm. Then we can go to the next thing............(engine still hot from geting home early from work- its the early release program today cuz of the Christmas weekend....)
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:50 PM   #50
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OK, that didnt take long. Water spray all over TBI base, and vac lines all around. Even sprayed the spark plug wires/dist cap, rotor, etc. No change in engine rpm's. Then I even lit up 2 insense sticks (got them from the wife- she had strawberry flavored ones), and they smoked up some, ran the sticks of smoke all around the vac lines.tbi base. No suctioning of that smoke. No detectable leaks anywhere. man, we gotta be looking elsewhere.

OR, we can call it quits. Geez. Hate to have yoou guys here chasing a ghost and all. Heck, lived with it for 9 yrs now. Running out of idea.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:36 AM   #51
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Car "stumbles"


Maybe check the distributor gear and shaft for wear. Highly unlikely to be the cause but if you checked everything else it's worth a check.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:51 AM   #52
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I know I am late in here however I did not get a chance to see what engine you have in your car if you have timming chain it can streched and can screw up the timming and valves.

A quick tip to tell if you have streched timming chain is use the timming light and timed at #1 hole or #1 sparkplug and read it then move the pick up sensor 180 degrees around if you have 4 banger you should do that on #3 hole ( IIRC they are at 1-4-3-2 ) but for 6 bangers they will varies a little so do at #1 then go 180 degrees and read it again you should have the timming marks line up straight if got off then you know the answer.

The other thing is check your catatic converter konck on them it should sound soild if rattle then you know it shot but few case it can get plugged as well ( you will catch this pretty fast at mid speed range but idle the vac will fall down pretty steady pace )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:41 PM   #53
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Merci', monsewer. Now, Its a 2.0L non turbo sunbird GT 1988. 4 cylinder. It has a timing belt, not chain. Now, I understand that once you line up the timing marks/notches , and you place the belt on, if youre off 2-3 mm, it makes no difference as the ECM will compensate for that (not to mention sometimes, with a new belt, its impossible to even get the timing marks perfect as the belt "teeth" will never accomodate that. ) I tried to put the belt on the next notch, and its worse, so one doesnt have much choice but to "minimize" the difference and settle for the closest notch/timing marks one can get.

I will try your idea on the timing light and the 180 degree thing...........
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:43 PM   #54
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believe it or not, these Brazilian engines dont even have a timing scale to time with- I understand these engines done need it as it doesnt matter. I scratched my head over this for a year or so a while back- timing is all controlled by the ECM- aint no matter ifn the dist cap is rotated a bit one way or the other.
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:53 PM   #55
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believe it or not, these Brazilian engines dont even have a timing scale to time with- I understand these engines done need it as it doesnt matter. I scratched my head over this for a year or so a while back- timing is all controlled by the ECM- aint no matter ifn the dist cap is rotated a bit one way or the other.
There is few other ways you can get the timming mark set up depending on what you like to do with this engine and I can list few here real quick

First one and this is genrally my favour methold is get a penical or long wood stick and slowly bar the engine over ( do not use the electrique starter ) while your helper hold the wood stick or penical and when the pistion is top dead centre ( TDC ) then take a blowgun and lightly blow in the plug hole and listen or feel which way the air going out if none then you nail it right if you hear air leaking either intake or exhaust or some case both then you have to bar the engine 360 degrees or a full turn over then it will line up correct.
NOTE: Becarefull with this you can bar the engine real fast with air build up in the cylinder and it will not take much to bar it over quick so don't use too much pressure.

Second methold is flywheel timming same techine as I mention above and some engine will have a notched flywheel so you can use them to indentcating where it the TDC { most larger diesel engine are done this way } I know old Dodge engine with van verison they are marked in this manner cuz you can run the timming light at the flywheel housing.

Few automotives engines are done this methold so that is the other spot you have to take a look.( mine VW diesel engine is done this way by look at flywheel )

Other methold I used from time to time is camshaft timming this is little more trickier but I will explain later if you are instering to hear how I done this.

Merci.
Marc
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:02 PM   #56
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Well, yes, there is a notch cut- but into the crankshaft pulley (not the same as a flywheel, right?). I wonder why they instaled a pulley with a notch and yet with no timing scale. Sheesh.

A few yrs ago, I took a shot at this- I guessed that timing should be at point about 11:30 position (from axial view, from the perspective of viewing the front of the engine from the crankshaft end/side)) using flashing timing light. I kinda guessed. I ran engine at idle, pointed the light at the pulley, and turned the dist cap counter clockwise and got it timed with slight advance. I was afraid though, to advance it too much for fear of overheated piston. I retarded it some and reduced the pinging, which can destroy your engine even if affording a more powerful acceleration.

better safe than sorry. Thats why in part, I still have a reliable 2.0L after 180,00 miles........
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:45 PM   #57
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Well, yes, there is a notch cut- but into the crankshaft pulley (not the same as a flywheel, right?). I wonder why they instaled a pulley with a notch and yet with no timing scale. Sheesh.
There is a reason for notched pulley is some of the timming devices can use the magatic probe to pick up the marking and go from there.

That how most modern gaz engine are timmed and few diesel engines done same manner.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:44 AM   #58
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After reading the original post, and the posts since, I wonder why the clutch isn't suspect. The clutch is the original equipment installed at the factory. This vehicle is 23 years old, the clutch is the same one? I'm not familiar with an 88 Sunbird, does it have a hydraulic actuator? My guess, and it's only a guess, is, your problem is there in the components of the clutch, not the engine control systems. The pilot bearing could easily be hanging up on the input shaft, in which the transmission isn't disengaging from the engine, even if the clutch does.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:11 PM   #59
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After reading the original post, and the posts since, I wonder why the clutch isn't suspect. The clutch is the original equipment installed at the factory. This vehicle is 23 years old, the clutch is the same one? I'm not familiar with an 88 Sunbird, does it have a hydraulic actuator? My guess, and it's only a guess, is, your problem is there in the components of the clutch, not the engine control systems. The pilot bearing could easily be hanging up on the input shaft, in which the transmission isn't disengaging from the engine, even if the clutch does.
Sorry for late reply, but clutch is original, and madderafac, I have had this rough idle problem for about 9 yrs now, no I doubt it is clutch, if we should blame the clutch for being now, 23-34 yrs old.

I have no reason to suspect transmission- I have always babied it. I have no "crawl" with clutch pushed in with gear say, in 1st. I just done see how that could be, but hey, thanks for posting- you never know.

Any feedback apPRECIATED
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #60
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I think that's "matter-of-fact". Your original post stated you had a problem with the vehicle almost stalling when backing up and pushing the clutch in. That's what I was addressing. I'll study the posts again for rough idle.

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