Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Do It Yourself > Automotive Repairs

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-12-2011, 03:20 AM   #1
Jack of All Trades
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 95
Rewards Points: 75
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Okay, here's the issue, my Rio starts exactly like an old carbureted car with a bad choke. It will start right up but immediately die unless I hold the gas down and manually keep the revs up. Just about 20 seconds of that and it's like the computer remembers that it's supposed to do something and it will idle fine but then still want to stall under load, i.e. power steering, A/C or putting in gear. After about 1 minute of driving it runs fine, doesn't stall or anything at lights (been afraid to use A/C though, in case it does stall and won't restart).

I've replaced fuel pump, screen, and filter and it has no power loss issues when driving so I don't think it's a fuel issue. The idle control valve seems to work fine when out on the road so I don't think it would be bad just at startup would it? Not sure what else to look at here.

I used to occasionally have issues with this all through it's life (thanks KIA ) but recently it sat for about 15 months until I had time to do total front brake replacement, now the problem is very pronounced, won't ever start and run on it's own. Also, temp doesn't seem to matter, won't start and run even when warm or hot.

If I had to describe how it "feels", it's like the computer isn't doing anything except ignition spark. No effort to control idle speed.

Open to any suggestions! Mileage is 109K if it matters.


Last edited by DoctorWho; 07-12-2011 at 03:28 AM.
DoctorWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 05:27 AM   #2
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?

Buy American, built and owned by Americans.

Mark

__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done

Last edited by Jackofall1; 07-12-2011 at 05:52 AM.
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 06:42 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 252
Rewards Points: 250
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?

Buy American, built and owned by Americans.

Mark
'Kinda' cruel reply for a guy just asking for help, but I tend to agree with your last comment..

Last edited by polarzak; 07-12-2011 at 09:52 AM.
polarzak is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to polarzak For This Useful Post:
Mr Chips (07-12-2011)
Old 07-12-2011, 07:52 AM   #4
DIY Hack
 
Mr Chips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,302
Rewards Points: 500
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorWho View Post
The idle control valve seems to work fine when out on the road so I don't think it would be bad just at startup would it? Not sure what else to look at here.
I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post
__________________
Those who can, do...
Those who can't criticize on the internet
Mr Chips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 07:55 AM   #5
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 22,120
Rewards Points: 2,882
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Doc---Get a computer analyzer to check that thing---some auto parts stores will provide that service.

I'm no mechanic---however it sounds like you need to retrain the computer or replace it.
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 08:04 AM   #6
DIY Hack
 
Mr Chips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,302
Rewards Points: 500
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?

Buy American, built and owned by Americans.

Mark
Are you kidding me! I currently own a 2006 Dodge, a 2008 Chrysler, and a 1998 Ford and I can't tell you how much time I've wasted sitting in the dealer for this recall, and that warranty issue. That's only the problems they are willing to stand behind and own up to.

I realize that being from Michigan this is probably a touchy subject for you, but if you aren't going to at least pretend to help, why bother. I seriously doubt you've convinced the OP to go trade in his Rio for a 1997 Exploder
__________________
Those who can, do...
Those who can't criticize on the internet
Mr Chips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #7
Jack of All Trades
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 95
Rewards Points: 75
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
My 97 Ford runs every time I need it. Sorry about your what was it called again?

Buy American, built and owned by Americans.

Mark
1983 Chevy Monte Carlo
1978 Ford F150
1977 Ford F250 Tow Truck
1990 Ford E150 Conv. Van
1982 Ford Mustang
2008 Ford Taurus AWD
2009 Ford Ranger XLT
1977 Dodge W300 Power Wagon Tow Truck
1988 Mercury Grand Marquis

That's just what's American that I own at the moment, owned dozens others in past. BTW, in my extensive experience, no brand is better than any other. Every engine, every chassis, every model has its own quirks that make it legendary for one reason and notorious for another. Just because I'm a noob on this forum does not mean I am a noob when it comes to auto repair and brand experience.
DoctorWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 11:26 AM   #8
Jack of All Trades
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 95
Rewards Points: 75
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chips View Post
I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post
Think I'm going to have to, can't find any other good reason for its bad behavior!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
Doc---Get a computer analyzer to check that thing---some auto parts stores will provide that service. I'm no mechanic---however it sounds like you need to retrain the computer or replace it.
Pulled my own codes and nothing at the moment, occasionally trips the MAF sensor code, but resetting takes care of it for another 10k miles before it comes on again.

Anyways, thanks guys, just wanted to bounce my symptoms off your heads, see if you thought like I did.
DoctorWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 05:03 PM   #9
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Hey Doc, sorry for boorish attitude, it is just, out of all the manufacturers out there Kia is one that I have the most trouble with.

You said that you hadn't driven the car for 15 mths, and there are MAF codes occassionally, could a spider or rodent have gotten to the MAF and either left some debris or web on or near the MAF grid.
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 09:24 PM   #10
NACE Coating Inspector
 
mustangmike3789's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 524
Rewards Points: 500
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chips View Post
I'd clean or replace the IAC valve, that was my first thought when i started reading your post
yep, sounds like a dirty or bad IAC. "works kind of like a choke", pushes extra air into the motor at idle when the throttle blade is closed.
mustangmike3789 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 06:08 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 331
Rewards Points: 250
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chips View Post
Are you kidding me! I currently own a 2006 Dodge, a 2008 Chrysler, and a 1998 Ford and I can't tell you how much time I've wasted sitting in the dealer for this recall, and that warranty issue. That's only the problems they are willing to stand behind and own up to.
Exactly... I am from a steel town and was always a "Buy American" fan. However, after owning several mistakes by Detroit and finding the lack of support, I stopped.

Besides, there is a very good chance that "American" 97 Ford was made in Canada. And no, Canada is not America. My wife's 2005 Toyota Camry is made in America with 76% content.


OP, I would first check the connections for the TPS (throttle position), IAC, MAF, and cam angle sensors. Sitting that long connectors can get very corroded. That will cause all kinds of issues. Put some di-electric grease on them as well.

Also, have you checked your fuel?
Marty1Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 06:46 AM   #12
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty1Mc View Post
Exactly... I am from a steel town and was always a "Buy American" fan. However, after owning several mistakes by Detroit and finding the lack of support, I stopped.

Besides, there is a very good chance that "American" 97 Ford was made in Canada. And no, Canada is not America. My wife's 2005 Toyota Camry is made in America with 76% content.


OP, I would first check the connections for the TPS (throttle position), IAC, MAF, and cam angle sensors. Sitting that long connectors can get very corroded. That will cause all kinds of issues. Put some di-electric grease on them as well.

Also, have you checked your fuel?
Yep and 100% of the profit from the purchase is returned to JAPAN, and the 97 Ford was built right in MI. And if you have ever seen how they arrive at 76% content you may change that statement to. They send modules over in shipping containers, at a single part to the mod and then it qualifies for built in the USA. Never owned one never will, but you keep driving that rice burner, thats called free enterprise, maybe you can offer your neighbor a ride to the welfare line some day.

Mark
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 07:41 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 331
Rewards Points: 250
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
Yep and 100% of the profit from the purchase is returned to JAPAN, and the 97 Ford was built right in MI. And if you have ever seen how they arrive at 76% content you may change that statement to. They send modules over in shipping containers, at a single part to the mod and then it qualifies for built in the USA. Never owned one never will, but you keep driving that rice burner, thats called free enterprise, maybe you can offer your neighbor a ride to the welfare line some day.

Mark
I understand where you are coming from. Like I said, I too was a buy American nut and still am, just not cars. I even found American made socks at Walmart and buy those.

It is called free enterprise. But, you are directing your anger at the consumer and not where it truly belongs, the car companies themselves. I have a Dodge Ram Van with 66k miles and the tranny slips when it's cold. My neighbor just replaced the engine on his 2001 blazer and now has a check engine light that won't go out. The dealer can't fix it and the emissions inspector told him he sees this all the time. "Just pay $200 each year for a tune-up, get the waiver, because I haven't seen one of them repaired." Rick Wagoner stood at a press conference and stated "We took our eye of the ball on quality." He should have immediately resigned as well instead of being fired later.

You cannot expect the public to invest in questionable quality and design. That is welfare of a different kind, not to mention the corporate welfare the US taxpayer just gave GM and Chrysler...

I will buy a quality product, I prefer it to be American. If not, I will try to buy one that is made in the USA. As for content, 60% of a vehicles cost is in the engine and transmission. Toyota, Honda and others have foundries here in the US to do that. They employ American workers, not UAW and I am ok with that too. Much of the profit has gone back into the US as well. There are design centers in California, engine plants in Missouri and Ohio, assembly plants in Tn and others. I am ok with the profit going wherever, it is a small portion of the cash spent to purchase the car. I certainly am not worried about executive bonuses. Japanese cars made in the USA is not a bad thing.
Marty1Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Marty1Mc For This Useful Post:
Mr Chips (07-13-2011)
Old 07-13-2011, 11:19 AM   #14
Jack of All Trades
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 95
Rewards Points: 75
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
Hey Doc, sorry for boorish attitude, it is just, out of all the manufacturers out there Kia is one that I have the most trouble with.

You said that you hadn't driven the car for 15 mths, and there are MAF codes occassionally, could a spider or rodent have gotten to the MAF and either left some debris or web on or near the MAF grid.
Hey no harm no foul, just wanted to make it clear that I'm a Ford guy too! only reason I even bought Kia was because back then they gave me financing when Ford said no.

Anyway, air box and MAF are clean as a whistle, except for the huge-ass wolf spider I found, but it was dead. Started pulling off the IAC valve but got too hot out already! I can't take the heat too well, have to wait till tonight or early AM tomorrow.
Some of the fuel is still old but about 3/4 of the tank is fresh premium gas and I had used Stabil while it was sitting too.
DoctorWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2011, 03:55 AM   #15
Jack of All Trades
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 95
Rewards Points: 75
Default

'03 Kia Rio won't run on its own


Well, ISC valve was the problem guys, of course you have to take half the damn intake apart to reach it but I got to it alright, then broke it getting it off! After looking at it, it was seized with carbon, the little metal flap inside was stuck with just the tiniest opening visible, I'm guessing it stuck shut at the car's normal "hot" operating idle speed, so that's why it acted like it was being choked at cold startup then would idle okay once warmed up.
Never seen such a stupid way to bolt one of these to the throttlebody, one bolt (the hard one to reach of course) was so close to the plastic housing that you couldn't fit a socket over it, not even a thin-wall socket. A box end wrench would've worked but it was at such a dumb position that I couldn't get any leverage, the bolt has a philips head, so I guess they think we're supposed to break it loose with a screwdriver or impact driver? Well I would have had there been more than 2 inches clearance in front of the bolt!, god I hate engineers!
Anyways, I wanted to test to make sure it was the issue so I used about 1/2 a can of carb cleaner on it and carefully super-glued the broken bits back together and bolted her back, wow, car ran like freaking new for first time in a long time, wish I'd got off my butt and done this ages ago! Drove it around a little and could tell when the glue gave way cuz CEL came on and ran like crap, but I have a brand new one coming! Thanks for all your input guys!

DoctorWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.