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Old 07-28-2010, 09:33 PM   #31
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Ronal Reagan said the scariest words in the English language are " I'm from the government and I'm here to help".

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Old 08-01-2010, 03:57 PM   #32
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There were some good points made on here by all--even those I don't agree with.

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that the government overreacts to potential consumer dangers. As to the regulation of marijuana, it's hard to say that it's overregulated right now. While we know that there's been few significant issues in countries that have decriminalized it, we don't know what legalization/decriminalization would be like in our society.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:14 AM   #33
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big long debate that didn't really cover what actually happens in the short term. breathing this crap will make you cough, will reduce your performance if you run - workout and is easy as hell to avoid. a nice 3m half mask with p100 filters costs about $20 and saves any debate on how bad it is, the long term isn't really the only concern, it's feeling like hell in the short term. even being around non asbestos drywall finishing and blown insulation i mask up for, i just can't handle breathing that stuff. slows me down on the treadmill and i feel like hell after an hour or two of being in a really dusty environment. in short, just buy a mask and be done with it
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:21 PM   #34
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I used to be a liscenced lead abatement worker, but not for asbestos. When I took my lead class, we did talk a little about asbestos, mainly out of curiosity from the class, and did have some liscenced abestos techs in there as well. Here's the deal with both-

When you do your own lead and asbestos abatements (removal), you can potentially release contaminants into the air. We can obviously all agree on this. A large part of the concern about these contaminants are not only for what you are exposing yourself to, but what you are exposing younger occupants of the home to. These contaminants when ingested (eaten, inhaled, whatever) can cause serious detriment to small kids. If you have an infant in the home, would you want them breathing in asbestos fibers that you made airborne? How about them eating some lead paint chips? This stuff is dangerous enough for adults to be around, much less kids.

Now, I'm sure what I'm going to hear next is, "But I put up plastic and wore a mask....". Good effort, but not enough. A $3 white mask from the home center won't protect you from much- mild irritants only. Anything severe (like lead and asbestos) needs a respirator designed to trap the material being removed, and has to fit properly. Rarely can you just by a respirator, put it on, and have it work right. It needs to be fitted.

And what about the doorways to the room to where you are removing the material? Were they sealed properly? How about the ductwork? If those weren't sealed properly, you just contaminated your whole house. How about clean-up? Wrong filter on your vacuum and you just did the same thing. Now you have lead or asbestos all over your house. And every time you vacuum, you make the material airborn again.

I could go on and on, but this post is long enough. In short, this is the best solution possible for both materials-

Unless the material containing asbestos or lead HAS to be removed (major renovation or material is deteriorated too far), seal it up, label it as containing lead or asbestos, and then cover it. 9 times out of 10, removal is not necessary.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:55 AM   #35
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I have installed floor covering since 1973. I took up thousand of asbestos tiles and scraped up many gallons of asbestos containing adhesive. My lungs are fine and I've never met an installer who had problems because of asbestos. Now the EPA is hot about paint with lead. I think it will be just as overblown as the asbestos scare.
Let me say something about the lead rules. Going into the house I'm working on now, I was told by my inspector that my city would require that I have the certified renovator certificate before I could pull a permit. Turned out not to be true, but I took the class anyway before I started work.

Being a homeowner working on my own home, the whole EPA certified renovator routine is recommended but not required for me. So I cut one corner, instead of spending $700 for a HEPA vacuum, I just did what I could with my shop vac, I put in a HEPA filter and added a HEPA bag figuring close enough... That hasn't been that big of a deal, I actually used the vacuum very little in my demolition of the second floor interior walls which I know are lath & plaster with lead paint circa 1917 that is in very bad shape.

But that's not the problem... I also used the cartridge mask, but I'll tell you - that mask really makes breathing harder to do. So I decided that once I had everything pulled down in the first room I was working on, I'd just take the mask off for the cleanup so I wouldn't have to take a break.

By the time I was done, my head was fuzzy and my balance was noticeably deteriorated. I knew I was feeling the effects of lead exposure, and I decided that whatever it cost me to buy more cartridges, more protective coverings for myself, etc. I was sticking to the plan. I took a very cold shower (gas was shut off at the house=no hot water) before leaving the house so I could be sure I wasn't bringing any lead dust home to my kids, then I took another after I got to the other house.

But I had a good excuse for having more steak! (Increasing iron intake can counter the effects of lead poisoning)
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:53 PM   #36
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Let me say something about the lead rules. Going into the house I'm working on now, I was told by my inspector that my city would require that I have the certified renovator certificate before I could pull a permit. Turned out not to be true, but I took the class anyway before I started work.

Being a homeowner working on my own home, the whole EPA certified renovator routine is recommended but not required for me. So I cut one corner, instead of spending $700 for a HEPA vacuum, I just did what I could with my shop vac, I put in a HEPA filter and added a HEPA bag figuring close enough... That hasn't been that big of a deal, I actually used the vacuum very little in my demolition of the second floor interior walls which I know are lath & plaster with lead paint circa 1917 that is in very bad shape.

But that's not the problem... I also used the cartridge mask, but I'll tell you - that mask really makes breathing harder to do. So I decided that once I had everything pulled down in the first room I was working on, I'd just take the mask off for the cleanup so I wouldn't have to take a break.

By the time I was done, my head was fuzzy and my balance was noticeably deteriorated. I knew I was feeling the effects of lead exposure, and I decided that whatever it cost me to buy more cartridges, more protective coverings for myself, etc. I was sticking to the plan. I took a very cold shower (gas was shut off at the house=no hot water) before leaving the house so I could be sure I wasn't bringing any lead dust home to my kids, then I took another after I got to the other house.

But I had a good excuse for having more steak! (Increasing iron intake can counter the effects of lead poisoning)
Neither of those symptoms sound like lead poisoning.
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:42 PM   #37
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The fuzziness may have been imprecisely described, maybe a better descriptor would be that I felt buzzed... I don't really drink that often, but when I've drank enough the feeling was similar. The way lead poisoning works is that at elevated levels, lead inhibits iron as a carrier for oxygen, so effectively you're starving your body and in particular your brain for oxygen.

http://children.webmd.com/tc/lead-po...verview?page=2
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In adults, behavioral symptoms can include irritability, mood and personality changes, changes in sleep patterns, difficulty concentrating, and memory loss.
At high levels, lead can affect the central nervous system, leading to poor coordination, weakness in hands and feet, headaches, and in severe cases, convulsions, paralysis, and coma.
I also had difficulty concentrating and short term memory problems, but I guess I forgot to mention that.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:40 PM   #38
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So, you're saying it's not the known exposure to asbestos that caused Malcolm McLaren's mesothelioma? There must have been "unknown or unmentioned exposure" or some other, undetermined cause?

The first part is extremely speculative (and bordering on conspiracy theory-ish) and the second part is contrary to common medical knowledge. Asbestos is the only known cause of mesothelioma. Smoking can only exacerbate it.

Look, if asbestos wasn't extremely dangerous it wouldn't have become so extremely regulated and the government wouldn't be trying to ban it all together yet again.
Asbestos is only dangerous in a friable state, thus airborne. Don't grind it. Lino tile are not friable until you grind or sand. You can break them all day and scrape cut back glue all day and not have any asbestos in the air. Insulation on pipes is a different story thats nasty stuff. Also let me add this , don't eat the stuff.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:03 PM   #39
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Neither of those symptoms sound like lead poisoning.
Think again- symptoms of lead poisoning are (but not limited to)- loss of balance, loss of short term memory, fatigue, moodiness, loss of appetite, lethargy, poor coordination, headaches, the list goes on and on.

Most people that experience the onset of overexposure to lead think they have a cold or flu. Thats what makes this stuff so dangerous. By the time you figure out whats going on, you have serious medical issues.

Be smart- save money on DIY projects that really are DIY projects. Abatements ARE NOT DIY PROJECTS!
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:10 PM   #40
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Think again- symptoms of lead poisoning are (but not limited to)- loss of balance, loss of short term memory, fatigue, moodiness, loss of appetite, lethargy, poor coordination, headaches, the list goes on and on.

Most people that experience the onset of overexposure to lead think they have a cold or flu. Thats what makes this stuff so dangerous. By the time you figure out whats going on, you have serious medical issues.

Be smart- save money on DIY projects that really are DIY projects. Abatements ARE NOT DIY PROJECTS!
Again fiable asbestos is dangerous not lino tile. They are not friable according to the us goverment/. epa

The pipe insulation stuff is nasty and should be handled by the pros.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:20 AM   #41
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Think again- symptoms of lead poisoning are (but not limited to)- loss of balance, loss of short term memory, fatigue, moodiness, loss of appetite, lethargy, poor coordination, headaches, the list goes on and on.

Most people that experience the onset of overexposure to lead think they have a cold or flu. Thats what makes this stuff so dangerous. By the time you figure out whats going on, you have serious medical issues.

Be smart- save money on DIY projects that really are DIY projects. Abatements ARE NOT DIY PROJECTS!
A lot of conditions have symptoms of fuzziness and loss of balance. He was doing a home project, maybe he had a couple of beers; maybe the room was very hot; maybe he overworked himself; maybe another environmental pollutant was present. Lead is a chronic condition often with no symptoms until lead levels are very high. The guy had just taken a class in lead abatement and was focused on the danger of lead poisoning. Of course, ANYTHING he experienced would have been attributed to lead. There isn't even any mention of lead being positively identified in the room or in the house.
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Old 11-09-2010, 11:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Windows

A lot of conditions have symptoms of fuzziness and loss of balance. He was doing a home project, maybe he had a couple of beers; maybe the room was very hot; maybe he overworked himself; maybe another environmental pollutant was present. Lead is a chronic condition often with no symptoms until lead levels are very high. The guy had just taken a class in lead abatement and was focused on the danger of lead poisoning. Of course, ANYTHING he experienced would have been attributed to lead. There isn't even any mention of lead being positively identified in the room or in the house.
Well he is not a doctor is he?. Leave the doctoring to the doctors. He is probaly a contractor that just took the lead coarse required by goverments. Another fear industry cread by industry to support industry. Paint companies should be paying for these cleanups just like the asbestos companies. Talking about elsert
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:28 PM   #43
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Windows- that is my point. There are a multitude of symptoms that COULD be attributed to lead, but most often aren't because the symptoms are so similar to that of the common cold, flu, a hangover, fighting to late with the old lady, whatever. By the time the true cause of the symptoms is discovered, the damage has been done.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:29 PM   #44
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Well he is not a doctor is he?. Leave the doctoring to the doctors. He is probaly a contractor that just took the lead coarse required by goverments. Another fear industry cread by industry to support industry. Paint companies should be paying for these cleanups just like the asbestos companies. Talking about elsert

Actually, I first got certified for lead abatements 6 years ago. I no longer do abatements, and have since let that liscence lapse.
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:51 AM   #45
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Actually, I first got certified for lead abatements 6 years ago. I no longer do abatements, and have since let that liscence lapse.
An entire house abatement is one thing , yeah not a diy, but pulling off trimm on a window is anothers thing. But according to the new laws need you need to take lead precautions for a simple job. Sometimes goverment goes a little to far. Are abatements exspensive?

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