Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Equipment & Safety > Safety

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-28-2010, 12:57 PM   #16
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Share |
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Clankpot;476731]So, you're saying it's not the known exposure to asbestos that caused Malcolm McLaren's mesothelioma? There must have been "unknown or unmentioned exposure" or some other, undetermined cause?
I'm saying I don't know. I didn't see anything in my 29 second perusal of the site to indicate he was ever exposed to asbestos.

Quote:
The first part is extremely speculative (and bordering on conspiracy theory-ish) and the second part is contrary to common medical knowledge. Asbestos is the only known cause of mesothelioma. Smoking can only exacerbate it.
start checking out what fiberglass does to a lung. Strangely similar in the injury sustained.

Oh, and from the link you provided:

Quote:
. One of these conditions is malignant mesothelioma, a rare form of cancer almost exclusively caused by asbestos exposure.
and:
Quote:
An overwhelming body of scientific and medical evidence has proven that the primary cause of malignant mesothelioma is exposure to asbestos.
those statements mean they either know of other causes or suspect there are other causes but have not proven them.

Quote:
Look, if asbestos wasn't extremely dangerous it wouldn't have become so extremely regulated and the government wouldn't be trying to ban it all together [URL="http://www.asbestos.com/news/2010/07/27/mesothelioma-causing-asbestos-may-be-banned-in-the-united-states/"]yet again
and you don't think the gov has never overreacted before. You don't think the gov has taken action based on suspicious scientific findings? If not, it's time to wake up. I'm not saying a person shouldn't take precautions but I truly believe much of the hype is financially driven.

this is from your site as well:

Quote:
Mesothelioma is a highly aggressive cancer that is difficult to both diagnose and treat. Between 2,000 and 3,000 cases of malignant mesothelioma are diagnosed each year in America, and these figures are projected to increase throughout the next decade
In my reading yesterday (an no, I'm not going to go find it) I read exactly the opposite. The site stated mesothelioma cases are dropping and were expected to continue to do so.

nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:12 PM   #17
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,755
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clankpot View Post

Look, if asbestos wasn't extremely dangerous it wouldn't have become so extremely regulated and the government wouldn't be trying to ban it all together yet again.
The government overreacts and overregulates many things. Look at marijuana or look at the lead paint issue.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:13 PM   #18
Expert
 
Clankpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Default

asbestos


Malcolm McLaren owned a sex shop and had a few of the walls demolished to make it look like a bomb went off in the place. Ceiling tiles and drywall particles were released into the air. He never was employed in an industrial setting or worked in any type of construction trade. Casual exposure, no?
Clankpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:24 PM   #19
Expert
 
Clankpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Default

asbestos


Since anecdotes are allowed, here's one of my own.

When I was young my folks had an edition put on our house. The contractor they hired ended up employing a crew of clowns.

Unfortunately from the get-go, the crew was not concerned at all about potential hazards. This is how they worked: turned the music up loud, got to shaking they azzes and goofing around with each other while they tore the place apart. No rooms were sealed off. No one was wearing masks, and as I think about it now, I'll say that our whole house was contaminated by dust. This project went on all summer.

I betcha can't guess where one of the head clowns is now? Well, he's dead from lung illness.
Clankpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:30 PM   #20
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clankpot View Post
Since anecdotes are allowed, here's one of my own.

When I was young my folks had an edition put on our house. The contractor they hired ended up employing a crew of clowns.

Unfortunately from the get-go, the crew was not concerned at all about potential hazards. This is how they worked: turned the music up loud, got to shaking they azzes and goofing around with each other while they tore the place apart. No rooms were sealed off. No one was wearing masks, and as I think about it now, I'll say that our whole house was contaminated by dust. This project went on all summer.

I betcha can't guess where one of the head clowns is now? Well, he's dead from lung illness.
lung illness or mesothelioma?

do you or any other resident at that house have mesothelioma? Your exposure would have been much greater than the clowns and if nobody in your house has it, it would show that the exposure did not cause the illness.

at least at an anecdotal level.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:33 PM   #21
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clankpot View Post
Malcolm McLaren owned a sex shop and had a few of the walls demolished to make it look like a bomb went off in the place. Ceiling tiles and drywall particles were released into the air. He never was employed in an industrial setting or worked in any type of construction trade. Casual exposure, no?
were they asbestos ceiling tiles?

and I have yet to have anybody prove there was ever asbestos used in drywall. The only claim I have heard was from a ambulance chasing lawfirm (and that exact statement was quoted at several other such firms as well) It's like they all got it from the same place.

It has been confirmed asbestos was used in SOME drywall mud. Was it tested in his "boutique"? and the results were?
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 01:41 PM   #22
Expert
 
Clankpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
do you or any other resident at that house have mesothelioma? Your exposure would have been much greater than the clowns and if nobody in your house has it, it would show that the exposure did not cause the illness.
No one in our household has mesothelioma or an asbestos disease. So, what's my point? My point is that the demolition/construction/remodeling worker-demographic is vulnerable to asbestos illnesses ... just maybe not to the same extent as someone in manufacturing or the insulation business who handles the raw material. Malcolm Maclaren, Warren Zevon, Steve McQueen, and others are popular, pubic examples. The beboppin' azz-shakin' demolition clown is an anecdotal example.
Clankpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 02:12 PM   #23
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

asbestos


Quote:
[Clankpot;476764]No one in our household has mesothelioma or an asbestos disease. So, what's my point? My point is that the demolition/construction/remodeling worker-demographic is vulnerable to asbestos illnesses
.and my point is since nobody in yoru household has presented with such an illness, there might just be more to the story than you are aware of. The fact nobody in your house has it supports my claim that a casual exposure is not adequate to cause the illness.

Quote:
. Malcolm Maclaren, Warren Zevon, Steve McQueen, and others are popular, pubic examples. The beboppin' azz-shakin' demolition clown is an anecdotal example.

steve mcqueen:

Quote:
Shortly before his death, McQueen had given a medical interview in which he blamed his condition on asbestos exposure.[51] While McQueen felt that asbestos used in movie soundstage insulation and race-drivers' protective suits and helmets could have been involved, he believed his illness was a direct result of massive exposure while removing asbestos lagging from pipes aboard a troop ship during his time in the Marines
concerning warren zevon:

Quote:
No one is entirely sure how Warren developed mesothelioma. While Warren had been smoking for almost thirty years before quitting in 1996, the cause of mesothelioma is exposure to asbestos. After Warren died, his son Jordan discussed his theory as to how Warren contracted it. Warren’s father owned a carpet store in Arizona, and when Warren was quite young, he used to play in the attic, which was loaded with asbestos. It is unclear whether or not his apartment building contained asbestos.
and you have not provided anything supporting evidence of asbestos in MaClaren's ceiling tile.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 02:29 PM   #24
Expert
 
Clankpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
.and my point is since nobody in yoru household has presented with such an illness, there might just be more to the story than you are aware of. The fact nobody in your house has it supports my claim that a casual exposure is not adequate to cause the illness.




steve mcqueen:



concerning warren zevon:



and you have not provided anything supporting evidence of asbestos in MaClaren's ceiling tile.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you're unintentionally supporting one of my original claims--that what you consider to be casual exposure to asbestos can be harmful/deadly.

Something that I've been driving at all along--and I'm definitely not accusing you of doing this--is that it's not responsible for people on here to be dismissive of asbestos hazards especially when conversing with less-experienced do-it-yourselfers who are new to this chatroom ... such as myself.

The OP noticed a lack of concern toward asbestos, and I'm arguing that people who know better on here should be more--and I mean this in a good way--alarmist about it.
Clankpot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Clankpot For This Useful Post:
stickjim (02-24-2012)
Old 07-28-2010, 03:35 PM   #25
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

asbestos


Quote:
=Clankpot;476796]I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you're unintentionally supporting one of my original claims--that what you consider to be casual exposure to asbestos can be harmful/deadly.
I would not consider removing asbestos from pipes and playing in an asbestos laden attic casual exposure. On Zevon's situation, I presume it took place over a matter of years and if you want to see how much the military really cares about their people, watch the nuclear bomb tests in Nevada where they had open air testing still and put a bunch of soldiers into trenches, popped the bomb and after the initial flash and shock wave had passed, had them get out of the trenches.

Anyway, I suspect either of those 2 people's exposure was far beyond what I, or anybody, would consider casual exposure. Each of them were at a level an actual worker would be exposed to.



Quote:
The OP noticed a lack of concern toward asbestos, and I'm arguing that people who know better on here should be more--and I mean this in a good way--alarmist about it.
if you would provide honest to goodness support that a guy removing his popcorn ceiling truly should treat it as it is going to kill him, then I am sure those doubters would be glad to read it.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 03:58 PM   #26
Expert
 
Clankpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
and you have not provided anything supporting evidence of asbestos in MaClaren's ceiling tile.
OK, good point. Let me ask you a final question. (And I am asking out of ignorance.) Do you consider matrix-bound asbestos products (such as floor / ceiling tiles) to be low-risk? It seems that that's what your getting at by coming back to the ceiling tile issue.
Clankpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 04:13 PM   #27
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

asbestos


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clankpot View Post
OK, good point. Let me ask you a final question. (And I am asking out of ignorance.) Do you consider matrix-bound asbestos products (such as floor / ceiling tiles) to be low-risk? It seems that that's what your getting at by coming back to the ceiling tile issue.
lower risk.

yes I do and it is generally accepted as such. It requires actual destruction of the material to cause friable asbestos. I wouldn't take a rotozip to a ceiling tile that contained asbestos but if one broke while I was working on it, I wouldn't run to the mortician and set up services either. I suspect I have been exposed to asbestos much more than the average person through my construction work, my time at a brake shoe factory, and actually working on brakes (as a pro). If I should end up with it, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. If I do, I'll be sure to come back her and let everybody know.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 05:43 PM   #28
Wire Chewer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,198
Default

asbestos


I think asbestos is overreacted upon. Lot of "asbestos removal companies" will make it sound like just having it in your house can kill you, and charge big bucks to get it removed "professionally".

I don't see removing asbestos yourself being any worse then reinsulating an attic, or doing heavy drywall sanding, all of which will produce dust that is not really good for you. Sure, asbestoes might be worse, but either way, you should be wearing proper protection to deal with the situation you are working in. Safety first.
Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

asbestos


More people die from tobacco products every year.....440,000 people in the US alone
Thats 50 people PER HOUR
I don't see the Govt making that illegal

Quote:
Of every 5 deaths in the USA, 1 is caused from smoking.
Thats just disgusting
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 08:24 PM   #30
Wire Chewer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,198
Default

asbestos


Yep they keep it going because they make money out of it. It's pretty sad really.

Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
vinyl siding over asbestos?? Buckeyes97 Remodeling 12 08-21-2012 09:20 PM
ASBESTOS..... lots of questions. Dyoung Building & Construction 22 02-14-2012 05:15 PM
Drilling asbestos siding (hanging shutters) MichaelDutch Remodeling 3 06-15-2010 10:49 AM
Vinyl Siding Versus Painting Asbestos freedom_fighter Remodeling 3 02-27-2009 10:35 PM
asbestos & paint--let's talk. jaes Painting 4 08-10-2008 10:49 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.