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Donnie L. 07-27-2010 01:09 AM

asbestos
 
I'm noticing a lack of concern about asbestos on here. Is it because asbestos-related illness is mainly an invention of ambulance chasers trying to business for themselves or is out of ignorance?

nap 07-27-2010 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie L. (Post 475893)
I'm noticing a lack of concern about asbestos on here. Is it because asbestos-related illness is mainly an invention of ambulance chasers trying to business for themselves or is out of ignorance?

well, that's a tough question. Asbestos has been the gravy train for quite a few law firms across the country. I suspect the claimed problems have been blown way out of proportion to the actual danger.

Bottom line: can asbestos cause health problems? Sure. Has it been proven to cause problems from a constant work related situation? Sure. Has it been proven to cause problems in the residents of a home that a worker that works with asbestos regularly? Yes. Has it been proven to be a problem due to a casual exposure such as removing the popcorn from one house's ceiling? that's the big question and I have yet to see any dependable evidence that is has.

I work in the construction industry and know hundreds of men that have worked around asbestos for decades. I do not know of a single reported case of mesothelioma ever in our local.

a very quick look showed an annual incidence rate of about 2300 cases and declining. That is an extremely low amount of diagnosis compared to all the hoopla surrounding asbestos.

Donnie L. 07-27-2010 01:45 AM

I once had a former abatement worker tell me that his company made a fortune from removing vinyl-asbestos tiles but that it was probably totally unnecessary. I guess these companies monitor the asbestos content in the air throughout such procedures, and he said that never once did it reach a level beyond what would be considered acceptable--even when tiles were being damaged.

Another guy went so far as to say that the only risk that has ever existed in the general population (ie, residential) is "paraoccupational" -- like, the spouses and children of workers who handle the raw material (100% asbestos).

I guess I freak out about it from time to time because I've been exposed to the stuff periodically throughout my DIY "career." Tiles, ceilings, shingles, ... everything has asbestos in it. I know I've been exposed without even knowing it before.

nap 07-27-2010 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie L. (Post 475902)

I guess I freak out about it from time to time because I've been exposed to the stuff periodically throughout my DIY "career." Tiles, ceilings, shingles, ... everything has asbestos in it. I know I've been exposed without even knowing it before.

I used to work in a factory that made brake shoes. We actually put the shoes on a machine that ground a radius on them. Since being in construction, I don't know how many times I have been on a job and somebody would let us know that the pipe insulation contained asbestos.

rusty baker 07-27-2010 08:40 PM

I have installed floor covering since 1973. I took up thousand of asbestos tiles and scraped up many gallons of asbestos containing adhesive. My lungs are fine and I've never met an installer who had problems because of asbestos. Now the EPA is hot about paint with lead. I think it will be just as overblown as the asbestos scare.

nap 07-27-2010 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty baker (Post 476346)
I think it will be just as overblown as the asbestos scare.


a neighbors friend, who is a painter, was telling me about the rules, GEEMINEE CHRISTMAS are they ridiculous. While I understand and appreciate the reasoning, they are simply way beyond what makes reasonable sense.

rusty baker 07-27-2010 09:05 PM

Did you expect the government to be reasonable about anything?:(

Scuba_Dave 07-27-2010 09:11 PM

I think it may have the reverse effect wanted
Forcing/convincing many HO to DIY due to the added cost

I worked in an Industrial shop when I was younger
Heat treating metal - furnaces running up to 2000f, liquid salt baths w/arsenic, oil quenches......nice fumes

nap 07-27-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 476372)
I think it may have the reverse effect wanted
Forcing/convincing many HO to DIY due to the added cost

I worked in an Industrial shop when I was younger
Heat treating metal - furnaces running up to 2000f, liquid salt baths w/arsenic, oil quenches......nice fumes

been in a few. never had the luck of working in one.:no:

Scuba_Dave 07-27-2010 10:21 PM

I lucked out...ended up working in the air conditioned lab :thumbsup:

Clankpot 07-28-2010 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie L. (Post 475893)
Is it because asbestos-related illness is mainly an invention of ambulance chasers trying to business for themselves or is out of ignorance?

To answer your actual question, I don't think a dismissive attitude toward asbestos is due to the hysteria created by ambulance chasers or ignorance. In my opinion, I think it's due to - a) the latency period of asbestos-related illness and b) arrogance.

Typically it takes decades for asbestos-related lung illnesses to show themselves. So, the carefree demolition/construction/remodeling workers of today, may turn out to be the very ill folks of tomorrow ... thanks to asbestos. To base your personal opinion of the dangers of asbestos on personal anecdotes ("no one I know ever got sick from it") is a dangerous game. To not care at all is arrogant.

nap 07-28-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clankpot (Post 476658)
To answer your actual question, I don't think a dismissive attitude toward asbestos is due to the hysteria created by ambulance chasers or ignorance. In my opinion, I think it's due to - a) the latency period of asbestos-related illness and b) arrogance.

Typically it takes decades for asbestos-related lung illnesses to show themselves. So, the carefree demolition/construction/remodeling workers of today, may turn out to be the very ill folks of tomorrow ... thanks to asbestos. To base your personal opinion of the dangers of asbestos on personal anecdotes ("no one I know ever got sick from it") is a dangerous game. To not care at all is arrogant.

nobody said people don't care but you are making a statement without proof to back it up. If you can show a correlation of a casual exposure of asbestos to an illness, bring it on. I don't think anybody has ever done so yet.

and if those carefree demolition/construction/remodeling workers of today are at risk, surely those same types of workers of the last 5 decades would not only have been at risk but would provide quantifiable proof of your claim. Got any statistics to show a correlation between such workers and asbestos related illnesses? The possibility of exposure to asbestos is much less than it was 20, 30, 40 years ago so if the workers of 20, 30 ,40 years ago are not showing a relationship, the workers of today are most likely not going to.

so, rather than standing on the building top and proclaiming death lurks behind every wall, provide proof of your claim.

so, you want to disregard my anecdotal evidence, then it's time for you to present solid evidence of your claim. Not only is your claim not supported by facts, it isn't even supported by anecdotal evidence.

Clankpot 07-28-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 476691)
and if those carefree demolition/construction/remodeling workers of today are at risk, surely those same types of workers of the last 5 decades would not only have been at risk but would provide quantifiable proof of your claim

Touche. I feel like you're making a good point here, but I'm not clear on something. Are you equating demolition/construction/remodeling work with casual exposure? I'm pretty sure that the demolition/construction/remodeling trades are pretty well-represented in current asbestos-related illness statistics.

Heck, this guy owned a "boutique" and managed bands and developed it.

(EDIT: "it" meaning mesothelioma)

nap 07-28-2010 01:19 PM

I would have to know a lot more about the guy before accepting the cause of his disease to such a presumed casual exposure. I suspect either there was an unknown or unmentioned exposure or asbestos isn't the only cause of mesothelioma.


Quote:

Are you equating demolition/construction/remodeling work with casual exposure? I'm pretty sure that the demolition/construction/remodeling trades are pretty well-represented in current asbestos-related illness statistics.
I'm an electrician. Pretty sure can get me killed.

Either they are in the stats or they aren't AND they would have to be listed in such a way it was evident that they were or weren't involved with some specific task that increased their exposure over other similarly classified workers. There are many ways to present "evidence" and you can often support both sides of an argument with the exact same data by how you package it.

demo/construction/remodeling can be in a casual exposure situation or if you are working on something like ships, not so much so.

Clankpot 07-28-2010 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 476720)
I would have to know a lot more about the guy before accepting the cause of his disease to such a presumed casual exposure. I suspect either there was an unknown or unmentioned exposure or asbestos isn't the only cause of mesothelioma.

So, you're saying it's not the known exposure to asbestos that caused Malcolm McLaren's mesothelioma? There must have been "unknown or unmentioned exposure" or some other, undetermined cause?

The first part is extremely speculative (and bordering on conspiracy theory-ish) and the second part is contrary to common medical knowledge. Asbestos is the only known cause of mesothelioma. Smoking can only exacerbate it.

Look, if asbestos wasn't extremely dangerous it wouldn't have become so extremely regulated and the government wouldn't be trying to ban it all together yet again.


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