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Old 11-30-2009, 06:30 PM   #16
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


I am having the same issues with Zinsser Cover Stain. The stuff just won't lay down worth a darn.

I tried a few test additives today and found that only turpentine seemed to help at all. Forget about mineral spirits or VM & P Naptha or Penetrol. It still isn't as nice as I would really like in the leveling, but adding the turps brought it a long way.

I used to be able to get Kilz exterior oil based primer and that stuff worked great. If it is still for sale in your part of the world throw away the Zinsser and buy yourself some Kilz. Kilz makes a lot of different primers so make sure you are getting the exterior oil based stuff. Around my part of the world I can still get some of their products, but not the exterior oil primer.

If you can't get the Kilz then try the turpentine in the Zinsser. From a web search I was able to find a list of ingredients in the Zinsser and it looks like it is a pretty straight forward mixture of petrolium distillates with pigments added, so I think the turps will not effect its longevity adversely, but only time and experience will really tell. Still, since it is unuseable the way it comes from the can, it is about your only option.

As for BIN, that is a shellac based primer and is thinned and cleaned up with denatured alcohol. It stinks to high heaven and if you are not in a well vented place you will soon have your head spinning from the fumes! It will not stand up long to tough environmentss, but it is perfect for spot priming over serious problem spots though. I dab a little on any knots or other bleed through problems before going over the whole piece with the Kilz oil based primer. This always got great results. Too bad I am stuck with the Zinsser for now!

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Old 12-01-2009, 01:44 AM   #17
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


I've tried mineral spirits, Penetrol, and Naptha.
I'll give turps a shot.

It ain't easy to sand out the brush strokes either...and after 24 hrs. (w/some Penetrol & mineral spirits added) it's still too soft.

I may have to remove the doors and break out my spray rig...or move to another product.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:32 AM   #18
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Just ditch the cover stain and get a gallon of this, you have gone through enough head aches already
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:56 AM   #19
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


I have tried the FS as a primer and it is O.K. over clean, well prepped, non-problem surfaces. It doesn't cover in difficult bleed through places as well as the Kilz did, and I hoped the Zinsser would. We use a lot of cedar where I am and the tannins will bleed through the FS as will knots and any other contaminates on the wood.

Also I have used various water based primers (including specificaly 123) in the past and found them all to be lacking because they all raise the grain and they all fail to really seal the wood. Once moisture changes with time and season the wood moves and the coatings fail. Also the wood can absorb enough water to support the growth of molds and rot. So maybe FS is good enough for some interior work, but it is not sufficent for exterior. I learned that the hard way!

Penetrol contains linseed oil which takes for freaking ever to dry. It is not a good choice for a fast drying coat although in a typical oil based paint top coat it would hardly be a problem. For priming purposes stay away from it. If you need to thin the Cover Stain use naptha which is fast drying and is one of the main ingredients of Cover Stain to begin with, though in my experience the naptha does nothing to help the brush strokes lay down. The turps is medium fast in drying but more importantly seems to lower the surface tension of the paint allowing the brush strokes to lay down better as well as to marginally improve the flow when applying the paint.

Last edited by PeterB26; 12-01-2009 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #20
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Good info on the Cover Stain.
I had assumed Penetrol was an alkyd resin of some sort.

I have three different applications, all interior:

1) raw wood (doors, frames, molding). I already 'ruined' the one door I completely stripped to raw wood with many many days of ass breaking stripping work. The Cover Stain looks like a comb was dragged through it.

2) 80 year old doors and molding (example baseboard) that's been painted thousands of times by various inept lunatics unknown to me..old layers are oil, topcoated with several latex layers, poorly bonded to the oil. Some of these I have stripped down to the oil layer, others I haven't stripped, some appathe stripped doors, the stripping isn't 200% immaculate. I need a bonding Primer and this is what was recommended.

3)Pine bookcases alkyd(?) primed over a decade ago. Knots are showing through the primer. I will spot the knots with clear shellac, then prime...if I can ever get the Cover Stain to level out.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:17 PM   #21
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


I didn't realize that "Fresh Start" was a name given to a whole line of BM primers. The only Fresh Start primer I ever tried was water based, so my comments were based on my experience with that. The product that Chrisn recommended is a completely different primer than the one I tried. I have no experience with that particular one.

You can get an idea of what some of the different formulations are from this web site:

http://whatsinproducts.com/informati...b1b9d416476233

Go over to the "brands" button on the leftt hand side to search for various products.
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Old 12-01-2009, 05:35 PM   #22
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovegasoline View Post
Good info on the Cover Stain.
I had assumed Penetrol was an alkyd resin of some sort.

I have three different applications, all interior:

1) raw wood (doors, frames, molding). I already 'ruined' the one door I completely stripped to raw wood with many many days of ass breaking stripping work. The Cover Stain looks like a comb was dragged through it.

2) 80 year old doors and molding (example baseboard) that's been painted thousands of times by various inept lunatics unknown to me..old layers are oil, topcoated with several latex layers, poorly bonded to the oil. Some of these I have stripped down to the oil layer, others I haven't stripped, some appathe stripped doors, the stripping isn't 200% immaculate. I need a bonding Primer and this is what was recommended.

3)Pine bookcases alkyd(?) primed over a decade ago. Knots are showing through the primer. I will spot the knots with clear shellac, then prime...if I can ever get the Cover Stain to level out.
Are you using a good brush or just something to throw away after you prime? A cheaper brush will tend to not leave an even surface so any spots or lines with lesser primer will surely soak into the wood leaving less for a uniform surface. If you go with a different brand Oil primer, have the store throw it on the shaker. If they won't, tell them you won't buy it. Be prepared to thin it a little no matter what brand it is. 19 times out of 20 I will thin down oil primer and paint so it flows better.

For the wood knots, Bin/shellac is the way to go. Latex won't do didly, plain oil based primer "Might" keep it from bleeding, KilZ Oil is a little better but can still bleed, but Bin is the sure thing.
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Old 12-01-2009, 05:56 PM   #23
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Bin is the sure thing. For bleeding knots
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:15 PM   #24
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Bleeding knots:
I have a gallon of BIN, unopened, but I’m going to return it. I have too much product here. I’ve never used BIN. I just mixed up a fresh batch of Blond Super Platinum dewaxed shellac flakes in a 2lb cut. I’ll use that to spot prime the knots, then prime with an oil primer.

Cover Stain:
I have a very good brush. The first brush I used was a Purdy Black China bristle which has laid down flawless glass smooth polyurethane and shellac finishes. I’m an artist (oil painter mostly) and I have toyed allot with paint chemistry and mixes, and know a good bit about brushes. Yes there are better brushes, but it’s a pretty good brush and is capable of very good results. The Cover Stain with this brush left deep brush ridges…and that has been my experience with this product to one degree or another…prominent brush marks no real leveling…ever since. Right after the first go round with the Purdy Black, I bought a new Purdy White China Bristle thinking the brush was somehow at fault. No difference. It just does not want to lay down smooth. This is a very crude product for brushing.
You know, I even tried a white bristle fan brush I have for blending oils. It’s a small brush used for paintings. I tried to use it on the picture rail molding. No difference in result.
I have a pretty wide background in painting and spraying both furniture and art.

I still cannot see why the recommendations for this product are given.


I’m starting to worry about other recommendations, like using Ben Moore Impervo acrylic enamel to topcoat the bookcases. I’m wondering if it is going to be too soft a finish for the weight of books and the wear/tear sliding books on and of the shelves.
Maybe I need some really good tough enamel and a clear coat over top of it.


Peter, interesting website very informative.

Last edited by Lovegasoline; 12-01-2009 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:38 AM   #25
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Iím starting to worry about other recommendations, like using Ben Moore Impervo acrylic enamel to topcoat the bookcases. Iím wondering if it is going to be too soft a finish for the weight of books and the wear/tear sliding books on and of the shelves.

I have used this on my book shelves with all my stero equipment on it with no problems, the 100 lb tv is another story.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #26
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


best products for interior wood work that I have experience with:

1) benjamin moore 217 underbody alkyd primer. still needs thinning with a little mineral spirits and penetrol. but if you doctor it up right it will brush on smooth without dragging and will level out without brush marks.

2) Kelly Moore Flo-cote. knock off of the BM 217 cheaper and almost as good.

key to all these primers is that they sand like talc. and you need to sand between coates to get that piano finish. you will not be disappointed.

the other trade off is that you can only do one coat overnight. becuase it takes a long time to dry enough to sand again and recoat.

I would also agree that coversatin sucks. i only used it for priming sealing exterior wood where I don't care about the finish.

the primers i recommended are everything that the coverstain isn't

Last edited by bowton; 11-01-2010 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:39 PM   #27
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Nobody primes bare wood with water-based primer! I am a professional painter, wall-covering installer, licensed faux-finisher, and drywall finisher. I am a business partner in a full-service painting and decorating company with an emphasis on Victorian restoration. Zinsser makes great products. Cover-Stain is an excellent product that is versatile in both interior and exterior applications. Further, it has a quick turn around time being one hour for re-coat with either latex or oil top-coats. One more note: You are incorrect in stating that one coat of primer on bare wood doesn't need sanding. Any material applied to bare wood causes the wood to fur. You claimed your primed wood looked impeccable - in regarding that, I think you must have fairly low standards, at least sub-standard quality if you truly think furred wood is acceptable.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:05 PM   #28
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


On raw wood- in oil; I used to love Ben Moore's Enamel underbody. Now I use Zin PrimeCoat2 ( only from HD) . Both will level ( I add a splash of Min Spirits to the oil) , neither will cover well ( underbodys aren't for coverage) .
Both sand nice to prepare for enamel coats.
All else- prep right and 123 is great.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:51 AM   #29
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Try the orange picasso paint brushes they are much better then purdy china bristle
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:55 AM   #30
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Zinsser Cover Stain Sucks


Quote:
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Try the orange picasso paint brushes they are much better then purdy china bristle

hey Joe did you see when this started?

11-19-2009, 07:02 PM

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