DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Painting (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/)
-   -   Zinsser clear BIN for basement floor pet odor control? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/zinsser-clear-bin-basement-floor-pet-odor-control-123148/)

kbreeze 11-11-2011 08:09 PM

Zinsser clear BIN for basement floor pet odor control?
 
Hi All - we have a basement apartment that our previous tenants 4 cats did a number on in terms of peeing and spraying. Flooring is ripped up and have been using a peroxide/baking soda/dish soap mix to try to take away the small but it doesnt seem to be working. Read the only way to take away the odor is to basically seal it in and in searching I and came up this stuff here:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...cStoreNum=1282

Questions are as follows:

1.) is this stuff ok for to apply to basement concrete floors? Will it seal in the odors on the porous concrete and will it hold up? A pergo floor will be installed over it once it dries.

2.) There is sporadic old dried glue where we ripped up linoleum. Does that need to be thoroughly removed before applying the BIN

3.) How many coats would it take?

4.) Is it ok to apply on the floor with a roller?

Brushjockey 11-11-2011 08:15 PM

There are more knowledgeable ones here about using on concrete- I'm not sure about that.
But isn't clear BIn the same as regular shellac?
BIN is pigmented shellac...

kbreeze 11-11-2011 08:24 PM

I don't know...it's called "de-waxed shellac" and it says "This product sticks to all surfaces..." and that its for "use in kitchens, living rooms, basements, closets & more"

...but I don't know if "basements" or "all surfaces" automatically means it will work to seal a concrete basement floor...and/or if it can stand up to the inevitable moisture it will face in a basement floor.

Brushjockey 11-11-2011 08:37 PM

It is the moisture part I wonder about- and it sounds like this product by a different label-
http://shellac.net/SandSealZin.html

jeffnc 11-11-2011 08:45 PM

I would use an enzyme cleaner (available at pet stores) before I would try sealing the concrete.

ratherbefishin' 11-11-2011 09:23 PM

kbreeze, it depends on whether or not a penetrating vapor impermeable concrete sealer was applied before the original flooring was installed. If it was, then BIN will probably work fine. If not, moisture will cause the shellac to fail in short order.
I agree with trying an enzyme treatment first, then, if necessary, use a product spec'd for sealing concrete.

kbreeze 11-11-2011 09:43 PM

I was going to try enzyme cleaners like natures miracle until I read this:

Quote:

This is from a certified master cleaning/restoration technician:

"Urine turns *alkaline* from an acid in a matter of a few days after being deposited. Therefore, you use an *acid* to clean... so do not use other akaline solutions such as bleach or detergents.

If the floors are cement, sweep/vacuum, scrub with your acid solution, extract/mop. Let dry. (e.g.,: you can spray the solution on with a pump garden sprayer, and agitate with a push broom. Or mop it on. Use a wet vac to extract, or mop).

ACID SOLUTIONS FOR CEMENT: I use Unsmoke Pipe and Porcelain Cleaner, an acid detergent, used to clean bathroom fixtures. Vinegar would work; I would mix 50/50 with water.

SEALER FOR CEMENT: Apply a solvent based acryllic sealer for cement. I use Neutralizer's "Neutral-P-Seal". *Any* solvent based acryllic cement sealer will work. Thompson's Water Seal is *specifically* not recommended.

fyi: We use BINZ (favorite) or KILZ, or any alcohol based shellac on walls and wood. Same process; clean with acid, dry, seal.

The idea is simple: you cannot remove dried urine from *porous* surfaces like wood and cement. You must *seal* the unremovable urine in the contaminated surfaces. It must be sealed from *exposure* to heat and moisture. If warm, moist air does not contact the dried urine crystals, you will NOT smell the urine.

If you do not seal, and even when the cat is gone, and carpet is simply replaced, warm, moist air will make the smell return, and contaminate the new flooring. *Months*, even *years* later. You *only* smell in the presence of heat and moisture.

Enzymes can work, but in situations of strong odor, they *never* will. A cat urinating just 6 ozs per day is 17 gallons of urine per year. Enzymes will work in single or very infrequent urinations. However, if the smell is strong, you have a major contamination.

If 20% of the surface is contaminated, 60% of the underlayment is. (Use a blacklight to find; males urinate on perimeter vertical surfaces, females squat in the center of
rooms, usually.)

On contaminated wood or cement sub-floors, you can put down *hundreds* of gallons of bleach, detergent, water, enzymes...pick your favorite. You can extract with a bilge pump after *flooding* the structure, and you will *never* remove the urine from the billions of holes in these floors.

Wash with an acid.
Extract and dry.
Seal.
Done.
Odor *gone*.

Mark
IICRC Certified Master Cleaning Technician
IICRC Certified Master Restoration Technician"
This is not the only time I've seen this kind of advise either. Many examples online of people saying the only way to get rid of the smell on concrete is to seal it. Apparently it's the advice and method of most "pro's"...however I am having a hard time trying to find which sealer to use...there are so many different kinds and the "neutral p-seal" referred above, i can't find anything on.

ratherbefishin' 11-11-2011 09:54 PM

Still depends on whether it's already been sealed. If it has, there's a good chance of enzymes working. But, if you don't know, you'd probably be better off to apply Seal-Krete or something similar.

kbreeze 11-11-2011 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratherbefishin' (Post 769034)
Still depends on whether it's already been sealed. If it has, there's a good chance of enzymes working. But, if you don't know, you'd probably be better off to apply Seal-Krete or something similar.

Honestly I am not 100% sure as I am not the original homeowner, but I am pretty sure it's never been sealed. There is no evidence of it, thats for sure. The house is only 9-10 years old though if that plays into anything.

Seal-krete? i'll check it out...

I think what I really need is something that is gas- impermeable? Since odors are basically a gas as far as I know at least...

jayhawks 11-11-2011 10:11 PM

Just used the original kilz

chrisn 11-12-2011 04:42 AM

I would go ahead and use it. If there already was a floor in place that you removed, then it most likely was already sealed.

kbreeze 11-12-2011 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 769220)
I would go ahead and use it. If there already was a floor in place that you removed, then it most likely was already sealed.

The previous owners (original owners of the house) put in the apartment, and to be perfectly honest I can't assume anything he did was thorough. Overall he did a nice job but there were definitely corners cut here and there. Looking at the floor it doesn't appear that it was sealed at all. Although I know with some sealers like radonseal you can't tell. But still I'd say the chances are low that he sealed the floor before putting the floor down.

Therefore I'd probably be safer putting down a sealer specifically made for concrete....the question however remains which one??

PS- I looked at the seal-krete stuff and I didn't see anything that was specific to the use of a basement floor. Also I don't think I saw anything about it being vapor impermeable...

DannyT 11-12-2011 12:33 PM

like the article you posted, vinegar will get rid of the odor. That is what they used in an apt i worked on that had hardwood floors. After the smell was gone they had me seal the wood floors just to be on the safe side. What kind of floor is going over the concrete? I've read that if the concrete is sealed that thinset for laying tile will not stick to it very well.

kbreeze 11-12-2011 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyT (Post 769439)
like the article you posted, vinegar will get rid of the odor. That is what they used in an apt i worked on that had hardwood floors. After the smell was gone they had me seal the wood floors just to be on the safe side. What kind of floor is going over the concrete? I've read that if the concrete is sealed that thinset for laying tile will not stick to it very well.

Yeah thats true about sealing it, but we are installing a pergo floor so it shouldn't be an issue. Regarding the vinegar thats what I am going to try next...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:15 PM.