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cbarker 02-24-2012 08:23 AM

Wrong Paint on Kitchen Cabinets?
 
We had a contractor repaint are kitchen cabinets. The cabinets were previously painted with a latex based paint. The cabinets were repainted with Benjamin Moore Super Spec D.T.M. Alkyd Low Luster P23 paint. We were told to allow the paint to cure for 2 weeks before we started to use the cabinets again. After the 2 weeks, we noticed that the paint would easily scratch with a fingernail. The contractor said that it may take 3-4 weeks for the paint to completely cure so we waited for 2 more weeks and they still scratch just as easy as they did before. Also, the paint doesn't look like "paint" more like a thin "rubberized coating". I looked at the paint can they left and I noticed that the paint says "For Metal Substrates Only" and our cabinets are wood (birch I believe). I contacted Benjamin Moore and they said the same thing. When I talked to the contractor, they said that they have used this paint before without an issues. I asked them what they are going to do and they are looking at applying a clear coat over the surface to prevent them from scratching. Is this something that should be done? To me, it looks like they used the wrong type of paint and I am leaning towards having them completely strip the paint and use a paint that is designed for wood surfaces.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

joecaption 02-24-2012 08:30 AM

Complety wrong paint.
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/f...low-lustre-p23
Should have been something like this http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home...oatings/paint/

Never a great idea to poly over paint, paint is suppost to be the sealer. Any adding poly over the wrong paint in the fist place is likly to fail.

ric knows paint 02-24-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbarker (Post 861888)
We had a contractor repaint are kitchen cabinets. The cabinets were previously painted with a latex based paint. The cabinets were repainted with Benjamin Moore Super Spec D.T.M. Alkyd Low Luster P23 paint. We were told to allow the paint to cure for 2 weeks before we started to use the cabinets again. After the 2 weeks, we noticed that the paint would easily scratch with a fingernail. The contractor said that it may take 3-4 weeks for the paint to completely cure so we waited for 2 more weeks and they still scratch just as easy as they did before. Also, the paint doesn't look like "paint" more like a thin "rubberized coating". I looked at the paint can they left and I noticed that the paint says "For Metal Substrates Only" and our cabinets are wood (birch I believe). I contacted Benjamin Moore and they said the same thing. When I talked to the contractor, they said that they have used this paint before without an issues. I asked them what they are going to do and they are looking at applying a clear coat over the surface to prevent them from scratching. Is this something that should be done? To me, it looks like they used the wrong type of paint and I am leaning towards having them completely strip the paint and use a paint that is designed for wood surfaces.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Hiya CB

To begin with, there is really no reason the DTM couldn't be used on properly prepared birch cabinet doors - the reason BM claims it's only good for metal surfaces is due to VOC compliancy - and they can't tell you otherwise...Paints that are deemed functional in the protection of metal surfaces, such as DTM, rust-inhibiting alkyds, are allowed a higher level of VOC than are decorative/architectural coatings (if BM then recommends these products for architectural/decorative uses, then they must lower the VOC's). Which would explain why the contractor may not have had an issue in this same type of application in the past.

But now you've got a problem. Do NOT put a clear finish over what you've already got - that won't solve anything. When you scratch the paint off, does it come off to another coat of paint or clear finish? ...or down to the bare wood? If it comes down to another coat of paint - and that coat is tightly adhering - that would indicate inadequate surface prep on the part of the contractor...If it scratches down to the substrate, that indicates the previous coating never had a tight bond to start and was, therefore not a solid enough foundation to accept new paint - again, the responsibility of the contractor.

This is an adhesion problem between a new and previous coat of paint - or an existing coat of paint and the substrate. Putting a clear finish over the DTM absolutely will not help the DTM adhere any better. It can't. It's probably necessary now to remove as much of the loosely adhering paint as possible, sand smooth, prime with appropriate primer then finish again. Good luck.

cbarker 02-24-2012 11:53 AM

The paint doesn't scratch off, it looks more like the surface gets marred than scratched. The paint feels more like a rubber coating than a painted surface. The doors were stripped down to the bare wood and the paint was applied (I don't think they used a primer). The base cabinets had latex paint that was lightly sanded and the new paint was applied on top of that.

cbarker 02-24-2012 12:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of the scratches.

ric knows paint 02-24-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbarker (Post 862043)
The paint doesn't scratch off, it looks more like the surface gets marred than scratched. The paint feels more like a rubber coating than a painted surface. The doors were stripped down to the bare wood and the paint was applied (I don't think they used a primer). The base cabinets had latex paint that was lightly sanded and the new paint was applied on top of that.

OK, the pics help...You mentioned the DTM was a low-luster product - low luster alkyds don't have the same degree of mar and scratch resistance as their gloss counterparts have (especially noticeable in dark colors)...If the contractor didn't use a primer, that could explain why it still continues to mar after several weeks of curing. Lower sheen products have a higher pigment load than do gloss finishes. The additional pigments are used to absorb the resin (binder) thereby reducing the gloss (and these ain't necessarily the kind of pigments that add a great deal of structural integrity to a coating)...Unfortunately, if applied to an un-primed, porous or semi-porous surface, much of whatever binder is left is then absorbed into the substrate, leaving the surface with only partially bound pigments - thus the marring.

If that's the case, your situation isn't necessarily dire. It may be as simple of a fix as to put on another application of the same DTM - but if you're still concerned that this particular finish is just too soft to use on a surface that is subject to as much abuse as cabinets take, contrary to what I said earlier - an application of a clear finish may be the best and fastest resolution. Any of the following clears are compatible and would work here: (1) alkyd or alkyd/poly clear satin or gloss, (2) water-borne alkyd clear gloss or satin, or (3) acrylic or acrylic/poly clear satin or gloss*...

Whatever finish you and your contractor decide on, he's going to need to sand the surface with fine sandpaper or scuff-pad. Once the sanding dust is removed, he's ready to apply clear finish. If you choose to use the acrylic clear, (a) do not use steel wool to abrade DTM finish, and (b) do not use a tack rag to remove sanding dust. Again, if using acrylic or acrylic/poly, make sure the finish is suitable for this type of exposure (not all acrylics are that durable compared to their alkyd counterparts). Alkyds and alkyd/polys will "yellow" with time (but so will your DTM finish), where acrylics are more crystal clear and non-yellowing. Again, good luck - and from your pics, it looks like your contractor did a nice job with application.

BraniksPainting 02-24-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbarker (Post 861888)
Any suggestions?

Thanks!

As a professional painting contractor, I would NEVER have used the DTM product for kitchen cabinets but that is my opinion. I would have used and use the Pro Classic material that joecaption mentioned. I do agree with ricknowspainting about the "low-luster" product being prone to scuffing easily though. Low luster is basically flat paint.


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