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-   -   THIS is why you don't use Latex Deck Stain (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/why-you-dont-use-latex-deck-stain-73415/)

Matthewt1970 06-11-2010 12:02 PM

THIS is why you don't use Latex Deck Stain
 
This deck was stained with Behr Latex Deck & Fence stain less than 2 years ago right before my girlfriend bought the house. I saw the cans in the basement on one of the walkthroughs and knew what was going to happen. It was probably 1/2 this bad after the first winter. No, it is not a problem with the wood or application or anything like that. It is what latex stain does on bare wood. USE OIL BASED STAIN !!!!

http://www.onlinestagegear.com/temp/Deck-1.jpg






http://www.onlinestagegear.com/temp/Deck-2.jpg



http://www.onlinestagegear.com/temp/Deck-3.jpg


http://www.onlinestagegear.com/temp/Deck-4.jpg



http://www.onlinestagegear.com/temp/Deck-5.jpg

Lovegasoline 06-11-2010 01:18 PM

That's stain? It looks like a completely opaque surface film, like paint.

I do not know about decks, but I've been a woodworker for 30 years and all the stains and dyes I've ever worked with were absorbed by the wood, they did not build a film. The closest to a surface film I've used is a glazing operation, using acetone base stain through a spray gun, but that's as thin as water, transparent, and also builds no appreciable film.

Latex Stain?

Matthewt1970 06-11-2010 04:32 PM

That's one of the problems with Latex Stain. It doesn't penetrate into the wood.

chrisn 06-11-2010 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovegasoline (Post 454606)
That's stain? It looks like a completely opaque surface film, like paint.

I do not know about decks, but I've been a woodworker for 30 years and all the stains and dyes I've ever worked with were absorbed by the wood, they did not build a film. The closest to a surface film I've used is a glazing operation, using acetone base stain through a spray gun, but that's as thin as water, transparent, and also builds no appreciable film.

Latex Stain?

You obviously have not seen BEHR stain applied. This is very common with this product. Do a google search and see for yourself.

Behr stain sucks.:yes:

poppameth 06-12-2010 12:14 PM

Yep, Behr is famous for this. Other acrylic stains I've seen work just fine. Oil doesn't penetrate that well any more either. Too must solvent has been pulled from oils now days.

Red Squirrel 06-12-2010 12:20 PM

It gives it that "rugged haunted house" look. I like it. :P

housepaintingny 06-12-2010 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppameth (Post 455105)
Yep, Behr is famous for this. Other acrylic stains I've seen work just fine. Oil doesn't penetrate that well any more either. Too must solvent has been pulled from oils now days.

I couldn't agree more, most acrylic stains do work just as well as oils and even out performing oils on vertical surfaces, most oils don't absorb into the wood that well on exterior staining and are becoming harder to buy, I prefer to use alkyd on walking surfaces. There is also some misconception that an exterior oil base stain won't peel or crack, but they can.

Matthewt1970 06-12-2010 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housepaintingny (Post 455135)
I couldn't agree more, most acrylic stains do work just as well as oils and even out performing oils on vertical surfaces, most oils don't absorb into the wood that well on exterior staining and are becoming harder to buy, I prefer to use alkyd on walking surfaces. There is also some misconception that an exterior oil base stain won't peel or crack, but they can.

I know you guys are very knowledgeable painters but you are wrong about oils. Oils time and time again will outperform Latex and Acrylics when it comes to bare wood. I can even get Nester in here and he will explain to you the characteristics of how oils have smaller pigments or whatever for superior penetration. Latex is fine for topcoats and drywall, but fails time and time again on bare wood. I kneo that oils "Can" peel, but comapred to latex they are basicly peel free.

housepaintingny 06-14-2010 06:33 AM

On a walking surface I would use oil or an alkyd, but for siding or fences I prefer to use an acrylic stain when using a solid or semi-solid, if using a translucent I use an alkyd,

poppameth 06-14-2010 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housepaintingny (Post 455891)
On a walking surface I would use oil or an alkyd, but for siding or fences I prefer to use an acrylic stain when using a solid or semi-solid, if using a translucent I use an alkyd,


Agreed. At this point a S/T still has enough solvent to make the oil work better. For a solid, there isn't enough solvent to give oil the edge. I've started seeing failures with the oil solids sooner than the acrylics now. Rubbol DEK use to last many years but since they went to the Next Wave technology I'm seeing issues with it peeling after only a couple of years. Sikkens must feel the same if they've discontinued the oil solids in favor of the acrylics.

nalabud 06-19-2010 06:30 PM

Would like to mention....
 
The pictures that were posted of the deck look EXACTLY like MY deck does.....SAME stain....TWO years later! Only, we made the very unfortunate mistake of staining a 3 tier deck that is HUGE & levels off at our pool! What a nightmare. I am not even sure where to begin to try to fix this mess. We also stained a retaining wall, all the deck rails, lattice, etc. The only thing that has worn away though is the decking where you walk. Any ideas on how to fix all of that & STILL match it to the rest of everything else??? I don't believe that I will ever use BEHR Stain again!
:furious:

Matthewt1970 06-20-2010 12:02 PM

I am on the deck 3 times a week and every time I am out there I scrape some more off with just my feet. I plan to chemicly strip the walk on surfaces (unless it all chips off in the next couple weeks which could happen) and then use a semi-transparent oil finish as close to the solid color as I can. Will it look 100%? No, but it will protect the wood and the combination of semi-trans plus sold color may work out well. You can use a solid stain on the deck but then it will tend to show more scuff marks.

Other options are to take the boards and flip them over. Some of them are already cupped the wrong way anyways. I am not going to go too crazy on this deck as they did the concrete footings below grade and dirt is right against wood. Pressure treated or not that will easily chop 10 years off the life of your deck.

housepaintingny 06-20-2010 03:10 PM

Deck Restoration
 
You need to strip it with a Stain & Sealer Remover, then apply a neutralizer/brightner, followed by sanding as needed, let dry at least 48 hours, apply new stain, SW has a good deck striper and neutralizer that will also brighten, wolman also has some great products

FrankL 06-21-2010 10:58 PM

I have used Wood RX which is acrylic. I know others who have used it in warm and sunny climates. I generally do not like solid stains. Clear or semi transparent usually make the wood look great.

Frank Lardino

houseinthewoods 06-22-2010 12:28 PM

Will the strippers and cleaners mentioned above remove Thompson Water Seal? It claims to penetrate, but the deck looks like crap even though water still beads up on the surface. I doubt anything else will stick at this point.


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