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Old 06-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #16
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Who pays for botched paint job?


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If you peel back and area of paint that is not loose and feel behind it right away, is it chalky? YES!



Was he supposed to put chemicals in the power washer?
Was he supposed to hand wash or scrape?

!











This really seems like a classic case of failure caused by painting over chalk.

There are no cleaners/chemicals that I know of that could have been added at the pressure washing stage that would have changed the outcome much, although any cleaner or detergent wouldn't hurt either.
It is possible that the pressure used was too low, or that is wasn't pressure washed thoroughly enough. I used to think that thorough pressure washing would take care of most any chalking issues, but over the years I've ran into some situations where even close 3500psi washing would not completely remove the chalk.

The most effective method I've found for removing heavy chalk is scrubbing with a soft brush, in conjunction with pressure washing. Something about the scrubbing makes the chalk come off better.

Even with a thorough cleaning, to be safe, I would use a paint additive in the first coat going on the cleaned surface.
Emulsabond is made specifically to help paint bond to chalky surfaces. I think it is sold in most paint stores, and has been used and trusted for years by pros for this purpose.

Pretty much any quality latex ext paint, or primer and paint system will bond well with aluminum if the conditions described are met. (Check specific product recommendations)

I almost feel sorry for this guy (and certainly for you the customer). It is possible he really thought he was doing it right, and just didn't get all the chalk off. Although, I also think any painter that would take on a job painting chalky aluminum should know enough to have caught this mistake before it became a disaster.

Good luck getting this resolved.

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Old 06-25-2013, 05:14 PM   #17
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Who pays for botched paint job?


Oh I definitely feel sorry for the painter. Someone is going to have to buy all new materials, strip it and repaint it.

I know he power washed because I saw him doing it. BUT, someone here said that the chalk appears very quickly once the aluminum is exposed to air.
If he didn't get the primer on as soon as he finished cleaning, maybe the chalk reappeared?

He did tell me he didn't use any special primer.

I told the guy I was in no hurry to get the work done, so he worked on it randomly over six weeks. I'm wondering how much time passed between cleaning and priming.

Either way, it's a sad situation. I'm hoping he will fix it without a fuss.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #18
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What did the "scope of work" in contract say?
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:44 PM   #19
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Who pays for botched paint job?


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Oh I definitely feel sorry for the painter. Someone is going to have to buy all new materials, strip it and repaint it.

I know he power washed because I saw him doing it. BUT, someone here said that the chalk appears very quickly once the aluminum is exposed to air.
If he didn't get the primer on as soon as he finished cleaning, maybe the chalk reappeared?

He did tell me he didn't use any special primer.

I told the guy I was in no hurry to get the work done, so he worked on it randomly over six weeks. I'm wondering how much time passed between cleaning and priming.

Either way, it's a sad situation. I'm hoping he will fix it without a fuss.
Hiya Dreams...

You've gotten a lot of good insight and information as to the definitive cause of your paint failure - this is an easy one. The surface was not properly prepared before painting - and that is absolutely the responsibility of the painter.

Whether he used chemicals while power washing, or scrubbed the surface, whether or not he used detergents is all irrelevant to the problem at hand. The surface was not in paintable condition at the time of application, as is evidenced by the residual chalk on the back of the paint chips (and most probably on the surface as well) - the painter accepted it as such (and that carries more weight than the "scope of work" as described in a written contract). If, in the unlikely event, a 3rd party was contracted to do necessary surface prep, and the painter's sole responsibility was to apply paint, once he's on the job and starts to apply product - he has taken custody of the project and accepted the surface as "paint ready"...in this (and your) scenario, he has taken sole responsibility for the success of this application.

His remark that this is just "one of those things - no one's fault" is either a comment made in ignorance, which does not excuse him from liability - or a statement of arrogance and/or bravado, in other words trying to bluff, or bully you into believing that his performance was executed properly and satisfactorily - which also does not excuse him from liability.

Because of that comment (attitude), I'd be careful about taking his recommendation for a proper resolution to this dilemma. Personally, I'd contact a couple of locally represented paint manufacturers and ask for their written assessment of the probable cause of failure and their specific steps to correct. Not only will this give you a step-by-step surface preparation guideline and finish schedule to serve as a job standard for your painting contractor, it may also prove valuable in the event your confrontation with him goes south and ultimately turns legal.

Last point (I promise), when presenting your argument, stick to those facts that are tangible and obvious. He painted over a chalky surface (period). You'll lose the argument of how soon aluminum or previously applied paint will chalk once it's been power-washed - too subjective, and a counter point can be argued very easily and effectively to make moot your entire case. Stick to the tangibles - always.

Good luck - let us all know how this one turns out.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #20
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We didn't have a contract.

I am so grateful for all of the help I have received here. I feel comfortable about asking HIM to be responsible for this mess.

Ric, thanks for the tip on sticking to the bottom line. I can see the wisdom in that. And I will definitely be asking some local pros how to fix the problem.

I am writing to the painter this week and I will post an update when he gets back to me.

Thank you all for your input!
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:04 AM   #21
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Who pays for botched paint job?


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We didn't have a contract.

I am so grateful for all of the help I have received here. I feel comfortable about asking HIM to be responsible for this mess.

Ric, thanks for the tip on sticking to the bottom line. I can see the wisdom in that. And I will definitely be asking some local pros how to fix the problem.

I am writing to the painter this week and I will post an update when he gets back to me.

Thank you all for your input!

IF
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:07 AM   #22
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LOL! Well, if he does not get back to me, I'll update you on what they advise at the licensing office!
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:28 PM   #23
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Was there no guarantee in writing with the paint job, It sounds like the paint started peeling within a year of the paint job. When I hire a contractor I make sure I see what they guarantee in writing. This guy is suppose to be the expert so if he's asking you what to use then it sounds like you will not be satisfied with his attemp to fix first paint job. Maybe it's time to hire a profesional and take this guy to small claims court.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #24
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I know, I know there should have been a contract with specifics, etc. But I did and still do feel that this man is ethical and I trust/ed him. He does have a license and bond.

He is not asking me how to fix it. But I have a new perspective on all of this, and when it gets fixed, I intend to be VERY specific about how it should be done, lol. Previously, I never even ASKED what kind of paint he was using (he used Behr but I don't know which of the Behr grades he used) which resulted in me having to pay extra for a second coat! You live and learn right? Now I know all about the importance of using a quality paint and I am willing to pay for an upgrade to one of the better brands.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #25
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Good attitude, sometimes better to pay a little extra for piece of mind and chalk it up to experience.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:59 AM   #26
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Who pays for botched paint job?


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Often heavy chalk cannot be removed by pressure washing alone. I've seen many examples of this. Heavy chalk has to be agitated( scrubbed) along with washing. Also adding a bonding agent designed to adhere to chalky surfaces is a good idea as well. "Emulsabond and 'seal krete original, both help paint bond to chalky surfaces.
This is exactly why you need Emulsabond. There is no way you are going to scrub every bit of chalk off and house.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:31 AM   #27
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Who pays for botched paint job?


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Personally, I avoid putting chemical cleaners in my PW.
This is unclear. Of course chemicals have their place in the professional pressure washing business. However you don't put chemicals "in" your pressure washer. You downstream them or otherwise inject them into the water stream, post-pump (X-Jet, etc).

Last edited by jeffnc; 07-02-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #28
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absolutely the responsibility of the painter.

Whether he used chemicals while power washing, or scrubbed the surface, whether or not he used detergents is all irrelevant to the problem at hand. The surface was not in paintable condition at the time of application
Correct, that's the bottom line.


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His remark that this is just "one of those things - no one's fault" is either a comment made in ignorance, which does not excuse him from liability - or a statement of arrogance and/or bravado, in other words trying to bluff, or bully you into believing that his performance was executed properly and satisfactorily - which also does not excuse him from liability.
Correct.

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Last point (I promise), when presenting your argument, stick to those facts that are tangible and obvious. He painted over a chalky surface (period).
Correct. Don't spar with him about technical details. It doesn't matter what the reason is that the surface was not in correct condition when painted. The surface was not in correct condition at the time paint was applied.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #29
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This is unclear. Of course chemicals have their place in the professional pressure washing business. However you don't put chemicals "in" your pressure washer. You downstream them or otherwise inject them into the water stream, post-pump (X-Jet, etc).

I will quote yourself here

" Don't spar with him about technical details".
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:23 PM   #30
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I will quote yourself here

" Don't spar with him about technical details".
What are you talking about?

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