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-   -   What type (if any) primer? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/what-type-if-any-primer-4308/)

Tmb9862 10-12-2006 01:39 PM

What type (if any) primer?
 
I'm painting the windows and the window trim around my house. They are about 100 year old and have many coats of paint on them. In addition the wood underneath seems to be somewhat damp but not spongy or rotted. I'd say at best they were painted 30 years ago as when we bought the house 20 years ago much of the paint was chipping and flakeing off.
I took a heat gun, a scraper, some sandpaper, and a nice resperator and went to work stripping the old paint off. 80% of it is bare wood now while some areas have a very thin coat of what is probably the original paint. All the seams are caulked with DAP dynaflex 230 50yr paintable caulk. The heat gun seams to have taken care of the moisture problem as well.

I was useing a Benjamin Moore oil based primer then a coat of Shirwin Williams flat exterior paint, then a coat of Shirwin Williams Gloss White. Both paints from Shirwin Williams are the cheaper 15 year line. The reason for the two differant colors is the flat paint I got for nothing so I figured I'd use it for a first coat then put my finish coat over it and only have to buy half the amount of paint.

Now. A painter I know saw me doing this and explained this to me: The wood has moisture in it (he's right about that), oil and water don't mix (so far so good), oil based primer won't adhere to the wood because of the moisture content (?). Only water based paints should be used because if their is any moisture in the wood, too much humidity, or if it rains the oil based primer won't properly adhere and will begin to come off. Also that the oil primer couldn't be topcoated for a month after it was put on. He said I should just put the flat paint I have right on the wood/paint/caulking and that it would hold up fine.

Should I continue useing the oil base? Switch to a water based primer? Or not use any primer?

JMGP 10-12-2006 05:47 PM

YES!

You MUST use primer on bare wood surfaces.

First thing... the moisture content must be at 14% or below. So you must allow the wood to dry out properly BEFORE priming or painting. At least 2-3-4 days (depending on the moisture issue)of good drying weather after you prep the surface.

It doesnt matter if its oil or latex primer/paint... if there is a moisture problem and you seal the surface... the moisture will have know where to go or evaporate... so it will cause your piant to fail prematurely...

Apply 1/coat of Ben Moore's OIL Primer...Fresh Start 09400...

There's no waiting a month to apply a finish coat... you can apply it next day... read the label...

AFTER priming then you caulk all areas as needed... do not caulk before priming...

Then you can apply the finish coat... I would recomend Ben Moore's Moore Glo (Soft Gloss)

Go here for more information.... www.paintquality.com

Tmb9862 10-12-2006 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMGP (Post 20635)
YES!

You MUST use primer on bare wood surfaces.

First thing... the moisture content must be at 14% or below. So you must allow the wood to dry out properly BEFORE priming or painting. At least 2-3-4 days (depending on the moisture issue)of good drying weather after you prep the surface.

It doesnt matter if its oil or latex primer/paint... if there is a moisture problem and you seal the surface... the moisture will have know where to go or evaporate... so it will cause your piant to fail prematurely...

Apply 1/coat of Ben Moore's OIL Primer...Fresh Start 09400...

There's no waiting a month to apply a finish coat... you can apply it next day... read the label...

AFTER priming then you caulk all areas as needed... do not caulk before priming...

Then you can apply the finish coat... I would recomend Ben Moore's Moore Glo (Soft Gloss)

Go here for more information.... www.paintquality.com

So besides my cauking order I was doing everything correctly.
I'll keep useing the Benjain Moore primer you recommended but I'm going to stay with the Sherwin Williams topcoat as I have 10 gallons of it already.

Thank you.

Paintguy26 10-12-2006 06:25 PM

The advice JMGP told you is good stuff. You should not paint until the wood is dry, no matter what paint you choose. If you have some extra money(but only if) you could grab a moisture meter. The cheap ones suck, but the good ones cost a bit. Your call.

As far as what kind of paint to use....SW, BM, and Zin are the best. The paint you are using will work fine.

Now, I personally disagree when I hear painters (or anyone for that matter), say using flat paint as a primer is ok. I use primer for primer, and paint for paint.

These are the steps: ( on dry wood)... prime, lightly sand, caulk, paint, paint

good luck, see ya

slickshift 10-12-2006 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 20618)
Now. A painter I know saw me doing this and explained this to me: The wood has moisture in it (he's right about that), oil and water don't mix (so far so good), oil based primer won't adhere to the wood because of the moisture content (?).

Well, sort of
There is a point in there
If the wood has a lot of moisture, oil-based primer could lift
This happens a lot on "wet" houses, and if the house has a lot of moisture, latex/water-based product should be used

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 20618)
Only water based paints should be used because if their is any moisture in the wood, too much humidity, or if it rains the oil based primer won't properly adhere and will begin to come off.

Ummm...
Not only water-based paints only forever
That's not true
If the house has a high moisture content, yes, the oil could lift and the paint would fail

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 20618)
Also that the oil primer couldn't be topcoated for a month after it was put on.

That's just a complete load
I was going to give the "painter" the benefit of the doubt, and maybe you mis-heard or mis-understood him with the other stuff
But that's just a crock
Don't take any more painting advise from this guy
Hey, that doesn't mean he's not a great guy, and maybe he knows a lot about other stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 20618)
He said I should just put the flat paint I have right on the wood/paint/caulking and that it would hold up fine.

Good Lord No!
He's full of bad advice isn't he?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 20618)
Should I continue useing the oil base? Switch to a water based primer? Or not use any primer?

Well, yes, you must prime
To answer whether you should use oil or latex, we must know why the wood is wet
Is it wet from recent rain?
Can it, or does it ever dry out?
Is it getting wet from the inside out?

Tmb9862 10-12-2006 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift (Post 20649)
Good Lord No!
He's full of bad advice isn't he?


Well, yes, you must prime
To answer whether you should use oil or latex, we must know why the wood is wet
Is it wet from recent rain?
Can it, or does it ever dry out?
Is it getting wet from the inside out?

He is a lousy painter. I've seen work of his go bad a few times. I just wanted to check if he was correct or not. That's why I came here to ask about what he said instead of following his advice.

As for why it's wet, it's just wet because the wood has basically been exposed to the elements for about thirty years due to flaking/peeling paint. The wood is actually in good shape though once its cleaned up, not rotted or spongy.
I'm not sure about when if ever it dries out, as I don't and havn't ever checked it regularly. I'm assuming since the only way it can get wet is from rain that it does dry out. When I stripped the paint it hadn't rained for about two days and the wood was wet. I used a heatgun in stripping the paint though and when I got through the wood was hard and dry which I assumed was dry enough for painting. I guess the moisture content is really a judgement call unless one spends the money for a moisture meter.


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