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Old 07-22-2013, 09:22 PM   #16
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What primer should i use?


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Originally Posted by Jyncks View Post
Pauhl says you can get a level 5 with Gardz.
That guy is very innovative with painting techniques, but I'd be very surprised if he said that per se. Do you have a link?

The only primer that could come close to a level 5 finish would have to be a high build primer. I think this is basically by defintion. Maybe he meant you can get a finish that, after sanding Gardz, can look like a level 5 finish. But the major wall finishing associations have agreed that a level 5 finish requires a "skim coat" and a skim coat is defined partially as below. I don't think Gardz makes any claim to the part that I italicized.

Skim Coat. A skim coat of joint compound is intended to
conceal small imperfections in joints and on the surface of
Typically specified in appearance areas which are to the gypsum board, smooth the texture of the paper, minimize differences in surface porosity, and create a more uniform surface to which the final decoration can be applied. A "skim coat" is essentially a "film" of joint compound and is not a readily measurable thickness. There is no specific mil
thickness that constitutes a proper skim coat. A skim coat is
described in the foregoing text as being "trowel applied" with
the intent being that the consistency (viscosity) of the joint
compound be such that it can be applied by a trowel if that is
the tool chosen for the task. Other tools may be used for
application so long as the trowel consistency is achieved.

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Old 07-23-2013, 05:32 AM   #17
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What primer should i use?


http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2008/1...l-primers.html Let me know what you all think.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:14 AM   #18
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What primer should i use?


I take that to mean that Gardz is his recommended primer over a Level 5 finish. I can see how it sounds confusing, but there's just no way someone with his experience thinks Gardz will provide a Level 5 finish. That's my opinion after reading.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:20 AM   #19
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What primer should i use?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc
I take that to mean that Gardz is his recommended primer over a Level 5 finish. I can see how it sounds confusing, but there's just no way someone with his experience thinks Gardz will provide a Level 5 finish. That's my opinion after reading.
That was my impression as well. It seemed he was saying using Gardz as a primer would maximize the finish on existing level 5 drywall, by penetrating and sealing the mud, therefore allowing the finish coat to dry slowly, and flow out nicely. As opposed to a PVA type primer that does little to decrease the porosity of drywall mud.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:03 AM   #20
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He says it is used over bare drywall. Would not a level 5 have a skim coat and then not be considered "bare drywall"? Does it look like the mud and tape pic was skim coated? We are a bit off topic but I'm enjoying the discussion. I am still looking for reasons why i shoild use something other than Gardz as a primer iver my skim coat.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:45 AM   #21
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What primer should i use?


As said above- the Gardz does not make it a level five, it is a step in the process.
Only level 5 methods I see are- skim, seal , and exceptional paint skills.

I do know that some companies with much experience can use a hi build - applied by spraying , sanded smooth and then finish. But that is full of learned technique.

Gardz big advantage is that it makes a total even seal, and if applied right has almost no roller texture. Which will help the finish coats lay out and will seal all differences in underlying porosity .

The finish coats must also be impeccably applied..

Back in the old days I used to do it with eggshell oil, one of us would roll it on and the other strike it off with a brush floor to ceiling....
We called it the Cadillac of wall finishes.

We now are stuck with the Prius of finishes...lol
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:02 AM   #22
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Yes , I understand Gardz does not give the level 5 finish. Would you agree that for the job that Gardz has in the process, it is level 5 worthy?
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:04 AM   #23
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Sure. I think that is what I just explained.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #24
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Yes, you explained exactly what im trying to achieve. As little texture as possible and a nice even sheen. Gardz and 2 coats of SW Cashmere is what I'm going to try. .
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:07 AM   #25
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Wow where to start. Gardz is a very good primer but will not give a level 5 nor will any primer with the exception of I think it's call Tuff Hide. Of course it takes a sprayer that costs upwards of $3000 to spray it. 123 did not give you the orange peel effect your roller did. If you want perfectly smooth walls you will need to spray the primer and paint, I know of no roller cover that gives no stipple or slight orange peel effect. The hardest thing about Gardz is finding it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:11 AM   #26
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What primer should i use?


I haven't called around for the Gardz yet but I'm sure that I can find it online. I'm also sure that I'm trying to achieve something impossible with my very limited experience and knowledge. But I don't see anything wrong with setting my sights high. However it turns out, I'll be ok with it. The walls will be 100% better than they are now. Unless I totally botch it. Thanks Tool and everyone for your help and I'll post my results when the paint drys.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:28 PM   #27
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What primer should i use?


Level 5 primers are available- they build up to 7 mils dry (8-16 mils wet). They are available from several manufacturers, and they are an actual paint primer, not a skim coating product. Glidden Professional #1040-1200 is one of them.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:34 PM   #28
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What primer should i use?


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Level 5 primers are available- they build up to 7 mils dry (8-16 mils wet). They are available from several manufacturers, and they are an actual paint primer, not a skim coating product. Glidden Professional #1040-1200 is one of them.

but you still need a practically perfect surface for the primer and as stated a sprayer to acquire that perfectly smooth surface, right?
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:15 AM   #29
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What primer should i use?


With regard to the phrase "bare drywall", in this context a level 5 finish that has not been previously painted or primed is considered bare drywall.

Last edited by jeffnc; 07-25-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:31 AM   #30
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What primer should i use?


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Gardz and 2 coats of SW Cashmere is what I'm going to try.
As far as I know, there is no coating you can apply that will increase the smoothness of the wall. By that I mean: let's say you have a perfectly smooth level 5 finish. There is nothing you can do to increase the smoothness, and anything you add will make it worse. Cashmere makes it less worse than, say, Super Paint. Which is to say, Cashmere adds less roller stipple since it levels better. Likewise, I think Gardz adds less texture than a thicker primer.

Interestingly enough, that means no primer at all before the Cashmere will give the least texture! Because once any texture gets on the wall, the coat over it will tend to shadow that texture. Cashmere isn't designed to be applied without a primer so I'm not saying I'd try that, I'm just saying the reason for using a primer on bare drywall level 5 is not to achieve the smoothest possible finish. Having said that, Gardz will probably add less texture than other primers. I would think Gardz and BIN are similar in this respect, since they both seem "thin".

Looking at the TDS's though, the film thickness of most drywall primers, including these, seems to be about 1.0 mils.

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