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dimswits 01-11-2011 12:12 PM

What am I Doing Wrong Here (Roller Marks, pics)
 
Hi Everyone,

I am having a terrible time with roller marks in the living room that I am painting, using techniques and equipment that have always served me well.

I'm using BM Regal Eggshell, in Phillipsburg Blue (a dark gray-blue, BM Deep Base). Arroworthy Glossdel 3/4" nap rollers. This is over one coat of Zinnser 123 untinted primer, on previously painted (white) walls.

I'm painting 8 foot walls, cutting in as I go. I paint the full height, two roller widths wide with each roller load, spreading the paint at the middle of the wall up, then down, with no real pressure, then backrolling into the wet already painted portion of the wall, up and down only. After spreading, I lift the roller, and starting with the small overlap between sections, roll down with no pressure to even out the stipple, overlapping each stroke 1/2 roller width, into the unpainted area.

I go relatively fast (I think) to maintain wet edges. I did a 56 sqft wall in about 25 minutes including cutting in.

I am getting very noticeable (when directly lit) roller streaks in this room. I've got three coats of paint on the wall and after each coat the streaks don't improve. I've never had this happen before and I am perplexed as to what i'm doing wrong. I've never painted anything this dark before and I do know dark colors require careful technique. These are definitely my marks, as after each coat I can see them shift slightly to wherever my roller strokes are exactly.

Pictures attached. These are iphone pics and the vertical streaks are quite evident. The horizontal lines are shadows from the cages on my halogen worklights.

I'm kind of at a loss. What am I doing wrong here, and how can I keep this from happening?

Thanks, everyone
Dimitri

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...s/22cd4fd1.jpg

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/...s/65b1e339.jpg

Gymschu 01-11-2011 04:10 PM

Dim, it definitely appears to be a "holiday", a spot where you stopped (even though briefly) and it looks like it left lap marks. Even us professionals have those problems from time to time. You might want to switch to a 1/2" nap on your roller or even 3/8".........you're really loading and applying a lot of paint with that 3/4" roller. Also, you may want to add some Floetrol paint additive to your paint. This conditions the paint and slows the drying process. This may give you more "open" time to finish a wall without the "holidays." Hopefully, you receive more responses as these are just a few suggestions that may help you out.

chrisn 01-11-2011 06:22 PM

Two good ones also. 1/2 nap and floetrol:thumbsup:

In response to gymschu

dimswits 01-13-2011 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 568009)
Two good ones also. 1/2 nap and floetrol:thumbsup:

In response to gymschu

Well, I took this advice, used a 1/2" 50/50 roller and added 12 oz of floetrol to 2 gal of paint, and rolled another coat on the smallest wall.

It looks no better, but I learned something. I had a few visible lap marks so I paid attention to them while drying. They evened out. The darker areas on the wall are much more rough to the touch than the lighter areas and seems to be reflecting light differently. The imperfections actually become harder to see the closer you get to the wall, with them being unnoticeable less than 2 feet away.

This room looked great after the first coat, but needed another for coverage. I'm thinking I messed it up on the second coat by running the roller dry in spots, leading to pulling paint and putting more stipple texture in spots. I just don't think I'm going to be able to even this out with my eggshell paint.

I am considering doing one final coat of the same color but in flat. Does this sound like it would possibly help?

epson 01-13-2011 10:09 AM

When painting you should always have a wet edge and blend into it. Also in order to keep the paint from streaking at the edge, you should look for a roller which has a beveled edge, and a suitable core. You may find that cheap rollers do not have these features, and their core is made from cardboard. The latter will get damp during painting, and loose the shape, causing more marks.

Windows 01-13-2011 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimswits (Post 569160)

This room looked great after the first coat, but needed another for coverage. I'm thinking I messed it up on the second coat by running the roller dry in spots, leading to pulling paint and putting more stipple texture in spots. I just don't think I'm going to be able to even this out with my eggshell paint.

I am considering doing one final coat of the same color but in flat. Does this sound like it would possibly help?

It sounds to me like you need to pole-sand the walls. The stippling effect in the paint could also have been caused by applying a second coat before the previous one was completely dry, or dry-rolling an almost dry coat. Give the walls a sand, try one more coat of your finish paint, and I think you will have the solution. Deep bases are tough to work with. We had trouble with them too from time to time and we are pros with many years of experience.

dimswits 01-13-2011 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows (Post 569207)
It sounds to me like you need to pole-sand the walls. The stippling effect in the paint could also have been caused by applying a second coat before the previous one was completely dry, or dry-rolling an almost dry coat. Give the walls a sand, try one more coat of your finish paint, and I think you will have the solution. Deep bases are tough to work with. We had trouble with them too from time to time and we are pros with many years of experience.

This sounds like a good idea. If I do the sand, I imagine I should use a screen, 120 grit or so? Any issues with sanding paint that's only been on the wall for 3 or 4 days?

Thanks.

Gymschu 01-13-2011 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimswits (Post 569219)
This sounds like a good idea. If I do the sand, I imagine I should use a screen, 120 grit or so? Any issues with sanding paint that's only been on the wall for 3 or 4 days?

Thanks.

You should be ok sanding down the paint.......it has had good drying time, maybe not ideal, but definitely doable. I hope you don't try putting the flat over the satin.......

Faron79 01-13-2011 01:15 PM

Oh my...what a mess...

Yes, sand the wall!
There's waaaaay to much paint stipple/build-up from that heavy-napped roller. That'll never improve, even with 12 more coats of paint....
Further, since you "spot-rolled" later, it gets even more spotty looking.

If I was re-doing this:
* after sanding...removing all dust...
* Prime with a med.-gray primer, since this is a deep color.
* Use a Purdy 3/8" White-Dove roller. Let paint soak in a couple minutes b4 1st use. Load again, let sit 2 more minutes. Roll off excess and hit the wall.
* Work in a column, starting in the upper-left. Apply FOUR ROLLER LOADS in a column no wider than 3'. Basically, you'll have 4 "blocks" stacked in a column.
* THE ABSOLUTE MAX area a 3/8" roller should do is 3'x3', ESPECIALLY WITH DEEP bases. Preferably no greater than 2'x3'.
* When done with this "stack", lightly lay-off this column with a LIGHT CEILING-TO-FLOOR SWEEP.
* Repeat around the room...
* This gives me FLAWLESS results, even with a deep color.

This is how I "teach" our customers to paint, especially with the deeper bases. NEVER had a complaint back to us....even with Ralph-Lauren Reds!

Faron

dimswits 01-13-2011 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 569234)
I hope you don't try putting the flat over the satin.......

Why is that?

dimswits 01-13-2011 02:38 PM

Double post 38 minutes later :)

Gymschu 01-13-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimswits (Post 569308)
Why is that?

Just more work for you dimswits......Here's a thought for you though.....will you be putting up pictures, paintings and the like up on that wall? Because in reality, by the time you put your stuff back on the wall and move the furniture back, the "holiday" lines will barely be noticeable.

dimswits 01-14-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 569340)
Just more work for you dimswits......Here's a thought for you though.....will you be putting up pictures, paintings and the like up on that wall? Because in reality, by the time you put your stuff back on the wall and move the furniture back, the "holiday" lines will barely be noticeable.

Heh, that's what my wife said! It just kills me to know I didn't do a good job. A month ago i used the exact same process and materials to paint our dining room in "Olive Branch," and it looks fantastic. Not duplicating those results is getting to me.

I think I'm going to do what Windows suggested above (thanks!) and give it a sand to knock down the roller texture and do one more coat. As I said the issue seems to be uneven sheen due to texture variation and not uneven color.

Faron, thanks for your input. My application method differed from yours only in the primer (i used white) and in the nap size. The arroworthy roller I used before I got the 50/50 is a woven dralon just like the white dove. I am pretty much convinced that i messed this up with the final ceiling to floor strokes by going too far back into paint that was already tacky, with a dry roller. I do have some 3/8" white doves and maybe will use them on this last coat.


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