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-   -   water on oil based? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/water-oil-based-175259/)

Startingover 03-22-2013 07:54 PM

water on oil based?
 
I have a feeling I won't like the answer. I'm tired of painting louvered doors, so took a shortcut by buying Rusteolem spray paint in a can. (good for metal or wood). I thought I would do the final coat with my nice SW trim paint.

Only thing, I realized it was oil based when my brush, (where I touched up) didn't rinse out.

I am putting the 2nd coat on tomorrow, so since it hasn't cured will it be alright to use my water based trim paint on top? Please say yes.

Afterwards I looked at the can and it said clean up with mineral spirits which I didn't have so I used mower gas. My dad used to do that. Except I put the gas in a plastic cup and the cup dissolved and the gas ran all over the garage and smells badly.

ToolSeeker 03-23-2013 08:34 AM

Louvered doors=royal PITA When I started I used one of those yellow buzz sprayers to do doors and trim. They are really pretty cheap now, and if you don't want to keep it you can sell when done. And yes you can put water based over oil. May want to light sand a little first. Just a scotch pad or something light your just scratching it.

Startingover 03-23-2013 09:17 AM

ts. Thank you SO MUCH. Whew escaped a lot of hard work there.

Only 1 pantry door remaining then I'm FINISHED with louvered doors so probably won't get a sprayer at this point..

That leaves 4 solid paneled doors, but I don't mind them.

cdaniels 03-23-2013 02:45 PM

Water based paint WILL NOT bond to oil based unless it is primed with a bonding primer first.

ToolSeeker 03-23-2013 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdaniels (Post 1143910)
Water based paint WILL NOT bond to oil based unless it is primed with a bonding primer first.

As they say in the tuna commercial "Sorry Charlie" but I disagree with you on this one.

cdaniels 03-23-2013 09:15 PM

Tool,It's painting basics, Latex will not bond to oil based paint.It will peel off in sheets.

Brushjockey 03-23-2013 09:30 PM

Wish it were that simple. Depends on WHAT oil, WHAT waterborne, and WHAT prep..

jsheridan 03-23-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1144000)
As they say in the tuna commercial "Sorry Charlie" but I disagree with you on this one.

You must be old, :laughing:. "Only the best tasting tuna gets to be Starkist", :laughing:

I have to agree with tool on this one. A properly sanded oil base surface will take latex paint and it will bond. Sorry Charlie. Any non-bonding finish, latex or oil, will peel over any unsanded surface, latex or oil, over time.

I've been asking the "truth" about that question for twenty five years now, and I've never heard a paint expert say it's true, and I've never seen it in print form in any paint company or laboratory literature. The only place I've ever heard that is in chat rooms like this or from other rank and file painters. I have been told by numerous pros in the paint store that they tell people that because they know people don't sand properly, and that will get them in trouble. It takes more than a scuff sand.

It's the same with Zinsser. They tell people, Do Not Use TSP, prior to using their primers. TSP doesn't present any problems for their primer, but the fact that people don't rinse properly/at all creates a problem. So they just tell you not to use it at all. It's because we're stupid and lazy.

Matthewt1970 03-23-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdaniels (Post 1144282)
Tool,It's painting basics, Latex will not bond to oil based paint.It will peel off in sheets.

I am with cdaniels, you really should prime it.

Startingover 03-23-2013 11:06 PM

ok, a light scuff then prime. Will do.

thanks

cdaniels 03-24-2013 12:45 AM

I googled it.Every site I found said priming with a bonding agent was crucial for adhesion.I have close to thirty years painting and wouldn't consider using a latex over oil without a bonding primer.To each his own.

jsheridan 03-24-2013 06:42 AM

Charlie, I'm looking for a paint authority to tell me that, not painters who are doing what they were told is necessary, and I haven't seen or heard it. I've never seen or heard the following, "when switching from an oil to latex, or latex to oil, system, which have incompatibilities and different expansion/contraction rates, it is critical to apply an intermediary/transition primer coat, the lack of which will lead to bond failure".
While you will always benefit from a bonding primer, that doesn't necessarily mean the lack of it equals failure. When I was taught it as a kid it was primer, not bonding primer, and it never made sense to me, so I asked, and have been asking and searching since. I've gotten many answers, but none that say it's necessary or critical. And I've been around long enough to have learned the hard way that it is indeed. Peace out.

chrisn 03-24-2013 07:04 AM

I do not ALWAYS apply a bonding primer, but probably 75% I do.Sanding, in my mind ,is still pretty much essential

ToolSeeker 03-24-2013 07:27 AM

I think a lot goes back to when latex was first becoming popular then it was true you had to be very careful. But over the years latex has evolved to where it is now and that is totally different from back then. I think this is just something that is still around. You got to remember back then latex paint was really bad. And everything was painted with lead based oil whice also made for different adhesion properties.

Startingover 03-24-2013 07:52 AM

at least this is my bedroom closet so no one will see it compared to all the other doors in the house.


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