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Old 07-03-2013, 11:50 AM   #46
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Stripping off old paint


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Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
The water base Polly is nice. A whole lot easier to work with to me.

But if your doing one side of the casing and trying to blend it in.. Switching to WB now might not be the best idea. Oil and latex both have some effect on the appearance of the stain, but in totally different ways.


Btw, the white stuff has me stumped..?.. Maybe some old sap that had seeped out under the finish and was exposed when you sanded...
According to what other person pointed out this is the base color for wood graining.
I removed parts of it yesterday and it must be it as it is even and same everywhere. So who ever did the "staining" faked it with above.


Last edited by blwegrzyn; 07-03-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:53 AM   #47
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Stripping off old paint


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Never though about using water based varnish. I still have a can of oil based varnish.
I've used water based polyurethane a lot over the years, including refinishing a wood floor at work about 13 years ago, it's starting to show wear now quite a bit in spots but no surprise there with the foot traffic, hand trucks, dollies, heavy stuff DRAGGED over it, things dropped on it.

That flooring girl site has her opinions like everyone does, and she does FLOORS, floors are a whole different ball of wax from trim and furniture. I've read actual lab tests on it done by a woodworking company, and their review and results favored the water based slightly over the oil based in hardness etc but the ease of use and no smell got high ratings. I have not noticed it take any more coats to get thickness, in fact you CANT apply oil based stuff heavily anyway because it stays liquid so long it will run and sag, you can apply a pretty good coat of the water based because it starts to dry very quickly, and shortly after you can lightly sand and apply another coat etc.

Flooring girl seemed most concerned about wanting the "richness of the amber color" from the oil product, and if that's THE important critical thing to you, then go ahead and use varnish and wait 3 days for it to dry and smell it in the air for weeks afterwards.
Water based IS a clearer finish, i.e. it doesn't have that yellowish/amber tone, which is why I say let the STAIN do the color you want. The water based urethane can be tinted if you prefer too.

I used water based on a pine floor made from ordinary 1x6 boards I put in temporarily in one room whose floor was so bad I HAD to cover it with something untill I had the budget and decided firmly on what permanent floor I wanted, the water based polyurethane held up fine even with large dogs for years.

Minwax makes it so that is a good brand to go with, Cabot also makes it and that's a good stain I've used, but there are other brands.

Stay away from Watco stains if you want to use a waterbased polyurethane!
I didn't know it, and the cans did not say it, but about 15 years ago I refinished a dining room table for a neighbor, she selected the stain she wanted, it was Watco, and I decided to use the water based poly over it.
All went nicely untill I started brushing the polyurethane on- it started to bead up!
I went to the hardware store and they called Watco, NOW we learned that Watco stains have WAX in them, which is what helps make it the so called "complete oil finish" that you supposedly don't have to top coat. You can use oil based polyurethane over Watco but not water based.

I had to resand the table back to bare wood, restain with Minwax, and then the water based polyurethane and it turned out gorgeous.

You can use water based over Minwax with no issues.

Last edited by RWolff; 07-03-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:27 PM   #48
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Stripping off old paint


Let me be the naysayer here and say I really don't like the WB poly and will avoid it at all costs. I never thought it gave the rich look of oil. Not to mention the extra step of raising the grain then sanding the fuzz off. I will admit they have gotten better over the last few years, but not good enough. I have to say I have used Min Wax for years, just lately I tried Cabot and was pleasantly surprised. I have a question about finishing, think I'll start a new thread even though painting forum.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:41 PM   #49
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Last question before i start to stain.
I did the final wood cleanups, sanding and finishing with the steal wool (super fine) and lastly i sprayed the wood with the water and then i noticed that the wood would have different colors and shades when reacting to the water. Once it dried out it looks more uniform and same. So I wonder, if the wood would react to the stain the same way it does to water. I checked the PH of the wood and it was 7 so it should be ok to stain. I am just afraid to start staining to find out that all will look like crap. I guess I can always put more layers of stain to make the wood look more uniform.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #50
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Stripping off old paint


As long as it all absorbed the water, and didn't bead up anywhere, that's a good indicator that it will accept stain. And the differences you are seeing could be color variations in the wood, that will be accented some with the stain, but not necessarily look 'bad'

If the wood is absorbing water at different rates in different spots, that could be a problem.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #51
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Stripping off old paint


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As long as it all absorbed the water, and didn't bead up anywhere, that's a good indicator that it will accept stain. And the differences you are seeing could be color variations in the wood, that will be accented some with the stain, but not necessarily look 'bad'

If the wood is absorbing water at different rates in different spots, that could be a problem.
attached shows the wood before and after applying the water.

Stripping off old paint-img_1345.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1346.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1347.jpg
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:34 PM   #52
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Stripping off old paint


Since you already used the steel wool 1 word of caution CLEAN everything as best you can then clean it again. All those little pieces of steel wool will rust and show in your finish. Especially since you already washed it with water. Any time you are going to use water or water based any thing DO NOT use steel wool.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:32 PM   #53
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Stripping off old paint


I decided to do it and be done with it. Initially while I was staining the color was the way i wanted and then it went darker. I must accept what I was able to do. Probably the wood was affected by the striping process as on test pieces I was able to get the color i wanted. Probably if i put one more coat i will get richer color but i don't think it is worth it. Now it is time to protect it and fix the walls and complete this crazy project.
Attached the results.
Without help of this forum i would probably ended up with black wood!!!

Stripping off old paint-img_1359.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1360.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1361.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1362.jpg
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:42 PM   #54
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Stripping off old paint


Looks a lot better

It would be a good idea to seal it once, when its good and dry, before starting the dry wall.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:57 PM   #55
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Stripping off old paint


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Looks a lot better

It would be a good idea to seal it once, when its good and dry, before starting the dry wall.
Yes, i will seal it with oil Polyurethane clear or semigloss
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:23 PM   #56
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my guess is that if i go with semi gloss it will change the look a little bit and make it more brighter and yellowish
i have three stains at home
the old masters I used before is pretty nice (see attached)
but it was put over wiping stain
it is the freshest I have so i was thinking to use it and due to semi gloss look i hope it will make the dark stain look brighter?

Stripping off old paint-img_1366.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1367.jpg
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:54 PM   #57
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Stripping off old paint


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Let me be the naysayer here and say I really don't like the WB poly and will avoid it at all costs. I never thought it gave the rich look of oil.
That's why I say let the STAIN do the coloring, if you have good hardwood like walnut, oak, cherry you get far betetr stain results than pine or spruce or the cheap paint grade softwoods used on door and window trim etc in many old houses.
If this amber color thing you want in the oil is that important to you then use the oil and mess with it for 3 days for 3 coats and a month to cure while smelling it, or tint the water based poly a light amber color.
Many people have allergies or asthma , and those persons simply can't be in a home with the toxic fumes given off from the varnish solvents, I don't mind it but every time I go in my gallery building, soon as I walk in the door I can STILL smell the odor of fresh oil based paint that I used on the ceiling MONTHS ago!

I don't have time or inclination to waste 3+ days with varnish and dealing with all the little dust flecks and dog hair that inevitably would settle all over it while it's tacky as mouse glue traps for 3 days.
Varnishing woodwork or floors is something you do on a vacant empty house BEFORE you move in, it's highly impractical in a house you are actively living in


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Not to mention the extra step of raising the grain then sanding the fuzz off.
I've never had grain raise with water based poly, and I've done my oak window trim, and furniture with it plus many other projects over the years.
You still have to lightly sand between coats anyway.

Last edited by RWolff; 07-08-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #58
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I applied the first coat of Minwax oil Polyurethane clear satin and waited 6 hours. Is it ready to recoat? Manufacturer says 4-6 hours. How it should feel when you touch it? Should it be smooth and slippery. For me it feels like not a smooth surface and and some spots feel sticky
I feel like i should wait till tomorrow before i reapply?
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:48 PM   #59
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The Minwax is slow to dry, even though some of the cans say 'fast drying' if it feels tacky at all, or if it gums up the sandpaper,wait longer.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #60
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So i finally got some time to get back to my crazy project and i patched all the holes next to the wood door frame boards and any holes on the walls. I painted the ceiling and the wood boards and today i decided to use the left over paint for the ceiling to paint the closet before finally paining the room. Yes, it all takes forever, but work has been keeping me busy and there was no time for the little room. Before paining it i tried to scrape as much old paint as i could and i patched the holes with http://www.menards.com/main/building...07-c-13060.htm
Today i cleaned the closet walls with little water, waited 15 minutes and started to paint. Cutting in was easy and all was good, but once i started to paint the rest with the roller, after few minutes pain started to stick out and started to come off. Even old caulk in the corners started to come off. i immediately started to scrap off the paint with the Joint Knife. I have no idea what kind of paint was there before? Was it too moist? The ceiling paint was Benjamin Moore Flat paint, which is pretty good quality. I must say that my house is one piece of crap and the best would be to remove and replace everything. People who did all the work before went easy route and now i have to suffer and deal with unexpected. Even the closets cause problems. Next steps are to scrap off as much old paint as i can in that closet, then sand it and paint with GARDZ and then repaint again with old ceiling paint. If i am luck i will finish this project in next 5 years!!! Dealing with old buildings is pain and sometimes replacing everything is the only way to go!!!
So now i wonder what happens when i start to paint the patched walls.
Attached the pics of my patching work.

Stripping off old paint-img_1442.jpg

Stripping off old paint-img_1443.jpg

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