DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Painting (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/)
-   -   Staining Problems on a New Cedar Deck (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/staining-problems-new-cedar-deck-48633/)

nleo27 07-11-2009 01:08 PM

Staining Problems on a New Cedar Deck
 
I am not sure where to turn so I am hoping someone can answer some questions for me. My husband just built a cedar deck and we are now having a nightmare staining it. We bought all Benjamin Moore stain (Natural clear coat) and the first time he stained (with a roller) the deck it blistered. It was not hot out at ll maybe 75 degress. Now this week he sanded it down and he stained it again (with a sprayer) and the same thing again but now there is also whit patched that developed and the stain is cracking....

Has this happened to anyone else because we just dont know where to go from here and we are waisting sooooo much money on the stain.

I am hoping someone can help us

NAV 07-16-2009 03:33 PM

That doesn't sound good at all.

Stains are designed to penetrate into the wood. you should not have enough material on top of the wood for it to blister.

Is it kiln dried cedar? If the wood is wet it would prevent the stain from penetrating and that would cause the problems you are experiencing.

without seeing it I would recommend stripping the coating you have on there and letting the wood dry out for 6 months. I know that is not what you want to hear but you gotta do what you gotta do.

also, you might want to contact a Benny Moore rep. talk to the store where you purchased the material and try to get the guys number. you can find it online from the benny moore website to.

tell him you buy a lot of his products and this is the first failure you have experienced. you might be able to get him out there and tell you how to fix it, maybe even get your money back.

Matthewt1970 07-16-2009 06:26 PM

2 things come to mind. Sounds like the wood hasn't had a chance to dry yet. Second thing is maybe you use a water based product which tend to build up on the surface and not soak in.

joan smith 07-16-2009 07:34 PM

You need to protect the wood or it will gray. I just did a t/g cedar shed and I used Thompson,s wood protector in honey gold (you can also get clear) It has a oiliness to it that penetrates the wood and helps prevent cracking, soaks in really well. Also a stain pad with extension pole is very easy to use and works the stain in well. You may get a little more UV protection with a semi-transparent stain like honey gold but if you are set on clear, they have that as well. Good luck!

Matthewt1970 07-16-2009 07:57 PM

Joan, she was trying to protect it, she just may have put it on too soon or used a latex/water based product which I wouldn't recommend. Thompsons is a parfin wax. It's like spraying your deck with pledge. Sure it will protect the deck from water but you will need to wait like 3-4 years before you can use any other type of product on the deck.

BMDealer 07-16-2009 08:14 PM

I agree with NAV, have the store get a hold of the Ben Moore rep and have him visit the house. Also agree with Matt about Thompsons, loaded with parafin "wax" which is a low end product that will wear fast in traffic areas...in months, and stay around in non traffic areas. That being said, just my 2 cents here, use a brush...if you roll or spray always back brush. Brushing works the product into the wood. Also Cedar, especially new Cedar has mill glaze and if not properly prepped for staining stains will not penetrate. Sanding would be the answer but since you said you did that and the problem still happened I would get a rep.

99BN99 07-16-2009 10:07 PM

BM stain application. The commenter that said use a brush is consistent with my BM dealer. I recently did a deck, railing, lattice skirt - all new construction last summer, and a fence that is how??? old with some previoius well weathered colour on it.

I asked my vendor about rolling the fence. He said never roll or spray - must use a brush (preferred) or pad applicator, and brush both directions (backbrush) in order to get proper penetration. Roller or spray will result in poor penetration and peeling.

joan smith 07-17-2009 06:53 PM

To Matthew 1970 I'm aware of Thompson's . The waterproofers may be wax, but I said wood protector which is a different product.

mazzonetv 07-21-2009 04:15 PM

can you post the product number that you used? Do you have access to a moisture meter to check the moisture content of the wood?? What was the weather like before, during, and after you stained?

As others have suggested, being that it is new wood the only thing I can think of would be the moisture content, but I would love to know exactly what product you used. In addition, if the store doesn't call the ben moore rep for you simply call 888-ben-moor and they will get a hold of the local rep. I would bet just about anything that they will give you a couple of gallons of stain for free to keep you happy - they are very good like that (at least here they are).

4ThGeneration 07-22-2009 07:42 PM

Cedar decks always have tannin bleeding as well as the paraffin wax protective from the lumber yard to protect it until it goes out. It should be lightly stripped and pH balanced before you applied the stain. Thats probably why it did not penetrate the wood properly without being there to evaluate it for you.

I always opt for a deep penetrating oil based stain like Armstrong Clark. It has non drying and drying oils as well as being a green product for the environment. It is easy to apply and dries uniformly when finished. If it happens to come a rain from no where when you are done it will have to be a huge down pour to even wash a tiny bit off.

Give it a try.

BMDealer 07-24-2009 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ThGeneration (Post 305558)
Cedar decks always have tannin bleeding as well as the paraffin wax protective from the lumber yard to protect it until it goes out.

Though tannin bleed can happen it is rare on a deck, siding is more effected by bleed. As far as parafins/wax protective coating from the lumber yard, this isn't true. Cedar is delivered very dry with no extra coating to help protect it. What does happen is called mill glaze which occurs when the cedar is sent through to be milled. The cedar's pores actually burn closed creating a glaze that can be impossible to penetrated. That is why when a cedar deck is installed a good sanding should be done prior to finish. There is nothing extra in the wood.......

nleo27 07-24-2009 06:35 PM

Thanks everyone for all your input. I think we are just going to leave it alone till next spring, than we will sand it down and restain

4ThGeneration 07-25-2009 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMDealer (Post 306071)
Though tannin bleed can happen it is rare on a deck, siding is more effected by bleed. As far as parafins/wax protective coating from the lumber yard, this isn't true. Cedar is delivered very dry with no extra coating to help protect it. What does happen is called mill glaze which occurs when the cedar is sent through to be milled. The cedar's pores actually burn closed creating a glaze that can be impossible to penetrated. That is why when a cedar deck is installed a good sanding should be done prior to finish. There is nothing extra in the wood.......

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Too many decks I have finished that says otherwise. just sanding a deck will not give you the results you need and if sanded improperly you will have some bad looking decks. I stand by my light stripping and pH balancing. Sanding is only one phase in my opinion, but if you want to sand tannin or a glaze off have at it. :thumbsup:

sninny 07-31-2009 03:52 PM

it is a wet deck
 
I also have a cedar deck I stain it once a year. I havent been able to stain it yet this year, to much rain. If you read the instructions it will tell you what the mosture content of the wood should be. i genrale rule of thumb is no rain for at least one week. that means seven dry days - here in lower NY (Westchester county) we havent had a dry week all summer.
The way I like to apply the stain is with a quality bbrush followed by a rag rubbing in / wipping up the excess.

CLEVERBRASS 08-12-2009 03:06 PM

Off on the wrong foot!!
 
Unfortunatley there has been a few mistakes right from the start.
As a professional in this field it is my job to ask very key questions of
the consumer about there deck before I recommend a stain for them.
A) How old is there deck?
B) How high off the ground is the deck?
C) What species of wood?
D) What type of sun exposure?

These are all very important questions to ask the consumer because it helps me determine what type of stain but more importantly what type of prep prior to staining.
Each stain on the market also has different types of application Do's & Dont's, such as wet on wet applications, One coat applications the list
goes on and on.
Most importantly for you benefit, New cedar decks need to be sanded
with a 60-80 grit sandpaper prior to stain application to remove mill glaze.
Check with your local hardware store to see if they loan out moisture meters, 15% is the maximum amount of moisture you want in your deck.
Do not roll or spray deck stain, It just allows the stain to sit on the surface
opposed to penetrating. Always brush or use a deck stain pad.
I hope this info is valuable.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved