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kt82 03-30-2014 02:29 PM

staining 1x6 yellow pine
 
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I have 400 sq ft of 1x6 T&G yellow pine on a pool cabana ceiling
I want to stain with Minwax Early American
Does sanding sealer serve as a wood conditioner to eliminate blotches?
any suggestion on how to make the Western Red cedar beams stain out the same as the yellow pine ? I tried some Minwax preconditioner and it
worked to lighten up the rough cedar . but it only comes in quarts

Jmayspaint 03-30-2014 04:20 PM

Thinned down shellac is sometimes used as a wood conditioner. It's actually a lot more effective that most of the wood conditioners you can buy IMO. Though it will lighten the end result if your stain job quite a bit because it limits the amount of stain the wood will absorb.

If your referring to an oil base sanding sealer, that would almost completely prevent stain absorption unless it was thinned a lot.

Making rough cedar stain out like yellow pine is a tall order. Not sure that would even be possible with standard penetrating stain techniques.

kt82 03-30-2014 04:41 PM

was looking at Zinsseers Seal Coat
Can be used as a pre-stain conditioner for pine and softwoods
Can be used as a bond coat under new finishes – adheres to any existing finish
SealCoat™ Universal Sanding Sealer
Zinsser Bulls-Eye SealCoat Universal Sanding Sealer is a 100% de-waxed shellac-based sanding sealer designed for use as an undercoat to prepare new or previously finished interior wood surfaces or as a pre-stain sealer and wood conditioner.

Pre-Stain Conditioner – SealCoat can be used to prevent uneven stain penetration over soft woods such as pine. Thin the product by adding 3 parts of denatured alcohol to 2 parts SealCoat.

Can I shoot Seal Coat with an airless without it drying up inside the tip?

kt82 03-30-2014 04:59 PM

Making rough cedar stain out like yellow pine is a tall order. Not sure that would even be possible with standard penetrating stain techniques.[/QUOTE]

I was able to match the cedar and the yellow pine enough to satisfy the HO with the Minwax Preconditioner but can only find it in quarts
so I was looking for another technique with the shellac ,but was afraid it will dry up inside my spray tip

but Zinnser makes it sound impossible with their humidity requirements
APPLICATION
Apply only when air, material, and surface temperatures are between 50-90F (10-32C) and the relative humidity is less than 85%.

Jmayspaint 03-30-2014 06:18 PM

The only problem I ever had shooting it airless was from leaving it in the pump too long. Even with putting the pump and gun in alcohol, the material in the lines dried somewhat and caused it to clog up like crazy.
As far as the tips, keep a bucket of DN alcohol and put the gun in it when not in use. Clean up the pump if your going to stop spraying for any length of time, even a few hrs.

poppameth 03-31-2014 06:49 AM

Just so you know the Minwax conditioner does come in gallons. I stock it at our store. Finding it in stock where you are may be the issue.

ToolSeeker 03-31-2014 08:42 AM

Most yellow southern pine is pressure treated is this? I have never shot Seal Coat, but let me ask another question, have you ever shot paint thru this airless?

Will22 04-01-2014 10:02 AM

Make certain that the stain you use is good for exterior exposure, as it usually has a mildewcide in it. Sanding sealer is only for interior use.

ratherbefishin' 04-02-2014 01:59 AM

You're looking at the wrong line of products for exterior use, especially the Seal Coat. That's shellac and won't hold up at all to moisture and humidity. And I don't think the Minwax stain has any UV resistance. You'd do best to be looking at a transparent deck stain.

poppameth 04-02-2014 06:48 AM

Yep I agree. Shellac is only good for spot priming knots and such outside. The Minwax stain would probably do okay if you topcoat it with something like spar varnish, but it isn't ideal. I understand the look you are trying to achieve, but you are best to skip the conditioners and go straight to a proper exterior stain.

Jmayspaint 04-02-2014 09:24 AM

:eek: I failed to realize we were talking about an ext surface.

It's very tempting to think that it being a ceiling and not directly exposed to the elements, that interior products will be ok... They are absolutely not. I have learned from experience (Bad Bad ones) that interior products do not have the mildew resistance for that application.
Several times I've seen interior products used in this manner and every time, after a few years, the finish film becomes impregnated with mildew to the point that it will not wash off. It will grow inside the coatings.

If top coated with Spar and maintained, it might do ok. But it's really really risky. Minwax stains do not do well at all outside.

ToolSeeker 04-02-2014 08:55 PM

Guys the seal coat is like a primer it is not the top coat it will be topped with something else.

Jmayspaint 04-02-2014 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker
Guys the seal coat is like a primer it is not the top coat it will be topped with something else.


Still though Tool, shellac isn't rated for exteriors outside of spot priming.
Years ago I had a massive failure on a porch ceiling with the pigmented Bin. It was knotty pine and we just did the whole thing with Bin instead of spotting. A few years later it came off down to the wood in big places. It seemed like the Bin just got brittle and lost its bond. Could have been something else I guess, but that was my diagnosis.

joewho 04-02-2014 10:04 PM

Old school way to stain different wood types on furniture is to make your own sealer with denatured alcohol and shellac. Something like 6:1 to tone down the blotches.

To match stain, you would adjust the formula and apply it to the most porous wood. Test it out and adjust the formula. This is the principle of the sealer, but you'd have to find one for exterior use that can be adjusted with the recommended thinner. The beauty of alcohol is that it dries super fast, but that may not be an option in an exterior application. You may have more luck by adjusting the stain color slightly.

ratherbefishin' 04-02-2014 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmayspaint (Post 1331804)
Still though Tool, shellac isn't rated for exteriors outside of spot priming.
Years ago I had a massive failure on a porch ceiling with the pigmented Bin. It was knotty pine and we just did the whole thing with Bin instead of spotting. A few years later it came off down to the wood in big places. It seemed like the Bin just got brittle and lost its bond. Could have been something else I guess, but that was my diagnosis.

Yep, had a job a couple years ago remodeling bathrooms in a house that had been primed with BIN by a fire restoration company...I'll leave them nameless, but tell you they spend a lot on TV ads....:whistling2:
The HO put on two coats of quality latex semi, and in less than two years the walls were alligatored. Both bathrooms had more than adequate ventilation, too. NO latex paint is impermeable. Shellac and moisture simply don't play well together.


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