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Old 09-27-2008, 09:48 PM   #1
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


I primed my newly plastered interior walls by spraying on Kilz 2 latex primer and now all the finish latex paint is easily nicked, pulls away from the wall even when removing gentle adhesive tape. It also peels easily like sunburned skin and nicks with the slightest bump from furniture, etc. Is this because I sprayed on the primer? Is it the type of primer itself? Is there a remedy? I have used the finish paints (various brands) in other areas of my home without having this problem. There is appx 1,000 sq. feet of wall space that I'm dealing with here. Any help solving this problem would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dorothyolive

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Last edited by dorothyolive; 09-27-2008 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:13 AM   #2
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Raw plaster as a rule does not like latex primer. How long ago was it plastered ? Plaster really should cure for atleast 30 days and depending on what kind it is it could be up to 90 days. If it was not properly cured, then yes, it can peel up. Some plasters will do ok with Latex Primer, but it should be watered down for penetration which it is always just a safer bet to prime it with oil based primer. Also spraying does run the risk especially with plaster of having the primer or paint just sit on the surface and not penetrate like it would with a brush and roller. Most new construction painters will like to either back-roll sprayed areas or just roll it to begin with.

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Old 09-28-2008, 08:31 AM   #3
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Actual plaster?
(some people call drywall/joint-compound "plaster")

True, actual plaster should be cured before attempting to prime
Once cured, latex primers generally work fine

However, latex Kilz is one of the worst products ever to bear the words "primer" on it's can
It is a stain hider (sealer), not a primer at all really, and an extremely poor stain hider at that
It's an even worse primer than stain sealer

Most real paint stores I know of refuse to carry the product as the failure rate is huge

The fix is the scrape and sand any loosely adhering finish/"primer", seal with a specialty penetrating primer (like Zinsser's Gardz), and top coat with a premium quality paint (two coats)
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:13 PM   #4
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Looks like I have a long job ahead of me. Thank you for the advice on the primer...Some I had talked to previous to priming had told me of the issues associated with Kilz primers but I thought that Kilz 2 was a different, safer alternative. If the paint peels off very easily do I have to sand/scrape the original primer or is there a product I can use to soften or dissolve the primer without damaging the plaster (this is real plaster...not joint compound). I beileve that there was a sufficient amount of curing time for the plaster: Appx. one month.

Thank you again, the advice is appreciated.
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:28 PM   #5
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


That was plenty of cure time
The issue is the Kilz2, which is the problem Kilz
(original Kilz oil-based stain sealer is actually quite good)

As the issue is the primer, it is best if you can remove any and all of the poorly adhering product

You should use Zinsser's Gardz to seal any remaining paint/primer
Then do any repairs/skim coating if needed
Then re-prime repair areas
The you should be good for 2 coats quality paint
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:35 PM   #6
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


So there is no magical product to make the problem just go away?

Would it be wise to use A product like "Peel Away 6" to remove the paint and primer? If so, after rinsing should i let the plaster cure again?
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:01 PM   #7
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


No

No

Sorry, the magical solution is some elbow grease
(honestly the peel away and liquid sanders and such require more work then most people think)
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:25 PM   #8
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Thanks everyone for the help. I have started the "old fashioned elbow grease" removal of the paint and primer. It is coming off quite easily (together). Some of the "sheets" I'm pulling off are 1'x1' or even larger. One room at a time I guess. This whole disaster is quite costly, in time, money and mess. Oh well, you live and you learn.

Again Thank you!!
Dorothyolive
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #9
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthewt1970 View Post
Raw plaster as a rule does not like latex primer. How long ago was it plastered ? Plaster really should cure for atleast 30 days and depending on what kind it is it could be up to 90 days. If it was not properly cured, then yes, it can peel up. Some plasters will do ok with Latex Primer, but it should be watered down for penetration which it is always just a safer bet to prime it with oil based primer. Also spraying does run the risk especially with plaster of having the primer or paint just sit on the surface and not penetrate like it would with a brush and roller. Most new construction painters will like to either back-roll sprayed areas or just roll it to begin with.
Hi,
I have completely removed the sheets of paint/primer from one entire room and after cleaning the dust residue from it, have tested the plaster surfaces with various brands of primer, primer/paint, and paint alone (all latex based) combinations. It seems as though the plaster surface itself may be the major problem and the inability of latex based products to adhere firmly. I want to do the prep properly so that the peeling/bubbling paint problem doesn't recur. Do you think I should use an oil based primer? I tested with an enamel (latex) undercoat but that just pulled away from the wall too. I see alcyd (?) products and shellac based (zinsser) products, oil based, etc. ???? I went to my local paint store and it seems everyone has a different opinion. Maybe you know of something that is made specifically for conditioning the plaster itself before I prime? I really need help with this. And who ever thought painting walls was mindless work should be in my shoes now!
I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
DorothyOlive

Last edited by dorothyolive; 10-10-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:30 PM   #10
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Hello Dorothy. This is the stuff I would use.

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=12

If you want to do a test spot, get yourself a can of the spray version, usually less than $5 and a cheap throw-away brush. It is the exact same stuff that is in the gallon. Spray a good 12"x12" section and then use the brush to to both work it in like you were using it out of the gallon can and also incase you get any runs. If that works well, keep the can onhand for any other jobs that may pop up and go back and get a gallon of the stuff. It may be labeled "All-Prime" but it is the same stuff. The stuff really does dry quick and you may be able to topcoat the same day. The stuff will be a little stinky untill you get the topcoat on, but it not near as bad as some other oil primers out there like Kilz. BTW, after you get the oil primer on there, you can topcoat with anything you want. It will stick.
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:24 PM   #11
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


I would advise a respirator when using

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=12
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:30 PM   #12
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


You may still be able to use a latex primer. You'll want something that bonds. Not an underbody or undercoat.

As someone mentioned above, thin the primer. Don't worry about coverage, you really need a very thin first coat to soak into the plaster. Once you get the first thin coat to stick, subsequent coats will perform as you expect.

Another suggestion is to check the ph balance before you do anything.
If the plaster hasn't cured to the proper ph, nothing will stick.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:31 AM   #13
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Ordinarily, water-base bonding primers such as SW PrepRite Pro Block Latex work quite well, but since you have had so much trouble, I would instead use an alkyd-base bonding (or stain-blocking) primer. I don' think a shellac-based primer such as BIN is necessary here.

Go to an actual paint store (as opposed to Big Box that happens to have a paint counter), tell them what problems you are having, and they should be able suggest a product that will work.

FYI, for the application of non-water-base primers indoors, a respirator is STRONGLY suggested. Not a dinky little dust mask, but an actual cartridge respirator.

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Old 10-11-2008, 02:32 PM   #14
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Hi Everyone :O) !!
Thank you all for the advise :O) By the way, how do I test the Ph of the plaster? I have never heard of this, but I am certainly questioning if the plaster is the actual root of the problem. I brought a "sheet" of the paint/primer that I had peeled off of the wall to my small "real" paint store. The gentleman who was helping me was puzzled when I showed him the large "sheet". He commented that he'd never seen anything like it. He asked to keep it so he could discuss it with some other folks. He took my name and number. I hope he comes back with a solution that agrees with the opinions here. Thinning the primer sounds almost logical, that's if the plaster is ok. To what ratio would I thin it. The spray test also sounds like a good idea. I did mention alkyd to the man at the paint store and he believed that because of it's quick drying time, it most likely would crackle (?) on the chalky surface.
I'm going to do this right if it kills me . I should have already gotten a gas mask . I may already have suffered irreparable brain damage.
Thans again everyone. I'll do some more testing and let you know the outcome.
DorothyOlive
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
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Spray primer Kilz latex now all finish paint is soft and easily peelable


Quote:
Originally Posted by dorothyolive
...The gentleman who was helping me was puzzled when I showed him the large "sheet". He commented that he'd never seen anything like it.
He's new
...or at least "just a salesperson"
To those that have been in the repaint biz for a while, the words "Kilz2" and what you describe, are (unfortunately) common

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