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-   -   So a chick walks into a Sherwin Williams store...... (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/so-chick-walks-into-sherwin-williams-store-183112/)

forcedreno2012 07-05-2013 06:13 PM

So a chick walks into a Sherwin Williams store......
 
I wish there was a punch line to this joke but there isn't.

Went to a local SW store to see about getting some sealer and primer as the drywall is about to go in. Need a boatload and thought okay they have nagged me enough on DIY I will go check out Sherwin Williams. Never been to this store before - this is what transpired - abbreviated version but you get the gist.....


Me - Need some drywall sealer and primer for house with new drywall.

Chick behind counter - You don't need to seal or prime new drywall. Priming is for going over older paint. You don't ever need to prime new drywall. Just do two coats of paint and it will be fine

Me - ummmmm....I think I do need to prime it what about the drywall fuzzies (note the technical term) from sanding and flashing from the taping and mudding.

Chick - Nope don't need it just two coats of paint. Trust me I have been painting for years.

Ended up getting out of there as quick as I could. Talk about losing a big sale and not so good advice.

:eek:


So I got on the yelling bone to the hubby and asked for the other location nearby....Polar opposites. Told him what the other store said and he just shook his head. This store was great and the guy happened to be the manager and after hearing what we are dealing with even went so far as to offer us some deep discounts that will allow us to get da good stuff at the box store prices....so now we shall see if this stuff is worth all the fuss :laughing:


Robyn

Jmayspaint 07-05-2013 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forcedreno2012

Me - Need some drywall sealer and primer for house with new drywall.

Chick behind counter - You don't need to seal or prime new drywall. Priming is for going over older paint. You don't ever need to prime new drywall. Just do two coats of paint and it will be fine

Me - ummmmm....I think I do need to prime it what about the drywall fuzzies (note the technical term) from sanding and flashing from the taping and mudding.

Chick - Nope don't need it just two coats of paint. Trust me I have been painting for years.

Robyn




















It kinda depends on what lines of paint your shopping for.

The top interior lines of several manufactures are formulated to be used without primer. They don't advertise the fact as much as Bher and Valspar, but SW Duration and Emerald, and BM Aura are all meant to be applied straight to new drywall.

Its not like Bher invented the idea of not priming drywall. SW Duration was one of the first real self priming paints.

Primer is great, but I'm skeptical of the idea that with newer paint systems that no longer recommend primer, that its still better to prime.... Maybe... Maybe the painters out putting on the paint know better than the chemists that design and test coating systems....think the jury is still out on that one...(probably always will be);)

ToolSeeker 07-05-2013 09:06 PM

J maybe I'm wrong Maybe you are I'm sure someone on here will let us know. It is my understanding the paint no primer deal is recommended more for use on previously painted surfaces not really new drywall. I have not used them all but I will say the ones I have used were very disappointing. And none lived up to expectations. Maybe what I said was confusing The only time I have used them is over painted surfaces.
Maybe Ric will chime in.

jagans 07-05-2013 11:27 PM

One thing is for sure, new drywall sucks up paint like a sponge, if you dont prime/seal it, and one of the pros on here said it before, Why use an expensive finish paint to do the job of a relatively inexpensive sealer/primer?

Sure, the manufacturers would love for you to buy twice as much of their expensive brew, so thats why the thickchick said that.

Jmayspaint 07-06-2013 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans
One thing is for sure, new drywall sucks up paint like a sponge, if you dont prime/seal it, and one of the pros on here said it before, Why use an expensive finish paint to do the job of a relatively inexpensive sealer/primer?

Sure, the manufacturers would love for you to buy twice as much of their expensive brew, so thats why the thickchick said that.

Yea, I understand ya there. The thing is with most of the expensive self priming paints, (Aura, Emerald) and others, two coats is required for the system to be warrantied. (Duration is an exception*). So, priming and using one coat, while it will probably look good, doesn't get enough finished product on to get the intended, thus warrantable' results.

I kind of look at it the other way. If I'm going to sell expensive paints, might as well put as much on as they say, and get the most out of the paint, and a warranty, rather than substitute part of the film with primer.

I'm not being 'anti primer' or anything. I just want to counter the idea that box stores invented paint that doesn't require primer on simple substrates like dry wall. This advance is huge with all makers of paint. SW, and BM have also put a lot of effort into these advancements.
They just market the concept differently.

I'm impressed with the new paints myself. All of them really.

* Duration needs to be applied twice as thickly as a normal paint to be warranted in one coat (8mil)
Edit: was thinking of exterior there^^,not sure interior

jeffnc 07-06-2013 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans (Post 1212126)
One thing is for sure, new drywall sucks up paint like a sponge, if you dont prime/seal it, and one of the pros on here said it before, Why use an expensive finish paint to do the job of a relatively inexpensive sealer/primer?

Sure, the manufacturers would love for you to buy twice as much of their expensive brew, so thats why the thickchick said that.

Not necessarily. The answer is "it depends". Using primer is not necessarily cheaper than using paint. (I'd show my math, but some people get very agitated and smoke comes out their ears when actual facts and figures are shown. I guess analytical thinking isn't that big in the trades:-) )

If primer is needed depends on sheen of paint, quality of paint, number of coats, etc. Actually both the SW salesperson were wrong. First chick should have said "it depends", and second guy should not be shaking his head. Basically any "polar opposites" view of this is going to be wrong.

jeffnc 07-06-2013 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1212092)
It is my understanding the paint no primer deal is recommended more for use on previously painted surfaces not really new drywall.

Let's think about that for a minute. Let's assume the paint is in good condition. So should it need a coat of primer before a new coat of paint? Well, if it did, then how would you ever get 2 coats of any finish paint on there? If you had to prime before every coat of paint, then you'd never finish.

Of course paint/primer in one is marketed toward bare drywall, because regular paint doesn't need primer. If it does, then there's some other problem involved, and in that case it's probably not the kind of problem that paint/primer can solve anyway. If anything, you might need to scuff sand glossy surfaces before the next coat, but not prime them.

ToolSeeker 07-06-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1212146)
Let's think about that for a minute. Let's assume the paint is in good condition. So should it need a coat of primer before a new coat of paint? Well, if it did, then how would you ever get 2 coats of any finish paint on there? If you had to prime before every coat of paint, then you'd never finish.

Of course paint/primer in one is marketed toward bare drywall, because regular paint doesn't need primer. If it does, then there's some other problem involved, and in that case it's probably not the kind of problem that paint/primer can solve anyway. If anything, you might need to scuff sand glossy surfaces before the next coat, but not prime them.

A lot of color changes require primer imop and if there has been any repair work I use primer. I have not used the SW with out primer but the ones I have used I would not trust on much of anything. As I have used them over very slight color changes and was very unhappy with the results. I am really not going to argue the point if you are happy with it and trust it use it. Let me use Behr for an example. First I really don't care a lot for Behr paint, Have I used worse yes, I could live with Behr paint it's not horrible. Now having said that if you add the self priming in my opinion it becomes a bad paint. I feel even over slight color changes it doesn't cover well, and the hide is low quality and any repairs flash a lot. This is just my opinion based on my experience and using Behr as an example does not limit this to their product alone. And the Behr product was Ulta Plus I think it was called.

SeniorSitizen 07-06-2013 08:48 AM

I can tell you for sure when the painter should have grabbed a bucket of primer for dry wall. The WHEN is after he stood the doors against the bare sheet rock walls and sprayed them with lacquer. In about a year the bleeding begin to show through as a yellowing.

Matthewt1970 07-06-2013 10:21 AM

I cannot believe people are actually recommending not priming bare drywall. Can you get away with not priming bare drywall? Sure. Can it cause huge problems down the road? You bet. It's like letting your unspayed female cat out one night while in heat. If she didn’t didn't get pregnant tonight, maybe I don’t need to spay her.

Jmayspaint 07-06-2013 11:17 AM

This thread brings up some interesting questions.

If you asked SW or BM "what is your recommended system for painting new drywall with your top line product" what would they say?
I don't mean the opinion of a certain store manager or one paint rep, but company policy.

Do we assume they are wrong about what these new products can do? No, products don't always live up to expectations. Only time will tell if the new systems will live up the claims made that they are so advanced that priming on some substrates Is no longer necessary for optimal results.

My bet is that they know what they are talking about for the most part.

RWolff 07-06-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

One thing is for sure, new drywall sucks up paint like a sponge, if you dont prime/seal it, and one of the pros on here said it before, Why use an expensive finish paint to do the job of a relatively inexpensive sealer/primer?
Because there's no such thing any more as inexpensive primer, the stuff costs almost as must as the PAINT does these days, gone are the days when you could get white wall primer for like $6.99 and the paint was lots more now it's more like $24 for the primer and $29 for the paint now.

If you use good quality paint to begin with instead of cheap watered down $9.95 junk, you aren't having to apply primer to make up for the cheap paints' lack of hiding and coverage issues.
I've had good results with Hardware Hank's own brand, it's thick and heavy bodied and hides well. I've never had to apply more than 2 coats of it.

forcedreno2012 07-06-2013 06:21 PM

Some interesting points so far. Definitely agree on the sucking up of the paint - I have dealt with it going over flat paint so I am sure the effect is worse on nekked drywall. I will be priming. I am not going to shell out a bunch of money on the good stuff to be disappointed in the finish. I may try just the two coats without priming on a closet wall just to see what the difference is with not priming.

Robyn

chrisn 07-07-2013 03:32 AM

Any professional painter will tell you that a quality primer and 2 coats of quality paint is the way to go on bare drywall. No matter what sales people and people from other trades say.

Jmayspaint 07-07-2013 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn
Any professional painter will tell you that a quality primer and 2 coats of quality paint is the way to go on bare drywall. No matter what sales people and people from other trades say.

Your certainly right Chrisn. And that system has been tried and tested over and over for years.

Just to keep it specific, we are still talking about new drywall.
Do you think most painters think they know better than the designers of coating systems? In other words, do we assume because this is the way its always been done, no change in the chemistry of paint can possibly change the fact that priming wall board is better than not?

Direct from BM, (our favorite, and arguably most trusted manufacturer) ; " Aura Eggshell Finish is self priming on most surfaces. Aura will act as its own primer, providing the OPTIMAL foundation for the subsequent finish coat"

There are exceptions given for difficult/problem substrates, and very dark colors. But for new wall board, it seems pretty cut and dry. The Benjamin Moore company, ( not one salesman, or a plumber;) ) are telling us there new paint is different. Its a completely new formula that uses new colorants. And performs better WITHOUT primer on Sheetrock.
They could be making this up I suppose, but after dealing with this company and there Reps successfully for many years I'm inclined to trust them on this one.
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/Downloa...tds%2FTDS_0524


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