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Old 08-06-2013, 11:52 PM   #1
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Smooth Level 5 Paint/Primer


Hi All,

Well, our remodel that is taking forever is finally showing some progress. We just had our whole house (yes the whole dang thing) smooth coated over the knockdown on the drywall. It had popcorn ceilings, three different textures and then we bullnosed on top of that so there was no matching to be done. With all that said I have some questions.

I had hired, I thought, a good company to skim coat and mud/tape the new drywall we had in the kitchen/family room/laundry room. Well it took them longer than they thought and I feel the owner had his workers rush the last day (last Friday) and now I am just about as teed off as can be.

He keeps saying industry standards, that he went over and above...

Yes the walls are smooth but there are MANY flaws still where we need to sand. Each and every wall needs to be touched (ceilings too). The small areas between the walls and the door frames still are even textured to the touch and when I pointed one of the areas out on Friday the worker put mud on it and then left it - I guess for me to sand down. The other areas he said we could do it...

All the walls were full of dust, they did NOT wipe down the walls whatsover. The mess they left too with the dust between the walls and the carpet is ridiculous. The spatters on the concrete (downstairs) where the plastic has been moved were not scraped up in all areas. It took us all day Saturday to clean and wipe down the walls. I am in a total time crunch to get everything painted as I have cabinets coming in next week so I can't wait for him to come out and fix everything.

I have the owner coming out tomorrow since they did some slight damage on my wood front door and I held back $500 from his payment ($5500 was his quote and he wasn't the cheapest but wasn't the most expensive either). He had good reviews on Angies List, yelp and has been in business for over 40 years. His guys were there a total of seven days - average 3 guys per day. The last day he was there in the morning and gave me a mouthful of how much this was costing him, he shouldn't have taken the job, his guys were going to be out by 3 and they weren't coming back. Why do some contractors act like they are doing me a favor? I'm paying them good money and expect good work and just because we are handy I don't feel like I should have to follow up behind them and get it right!!!

So my questions after all that is this... is there an industry standard (or sub standard) that there are going to be lots of areas that need to be sanded by the homeowner? Wouldn't it be if we do a job like this it should be paint ready? That is what he had said it would be - it is no way near paint ready.

Two - primer - I am using Sherwin Williams PVA - so far it's looking really good on the two rooms I have done but some of the places I did not see to sand are standing out - can I still sand it out or am I out of luck and have to live with the marks? I'm using a 3/8" roller.

Do I need two coats of primer? Or just one? I got a few quotes from painters and some of them said two coats primer and two coats color but then others are saying one primer and two color. Obviously after spending so much money to get this silly smooth walls I want it to look great. I am leaning towards flat since it hids the flaws the best from what I've read.

Sherwin Williams - HGTV paint... any good? What type do you recommend?

Thanks you so much for any and all input!

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Old 08-07-2013, 03:21 AM   #2
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One coat of primer and the way you are describing what you want, I would use a better primer than PVA.

NO, you should NOT be doing any touch ups, if he said it was paint ready, then after a coat of quality primer is applied, he should be back there fixing any flaws.

Hgtv paint is just OK but hardly the quality it seems you are looking for.

If you are going through the expense of a true level 5 finish, you should be able to put gloss on there and have it look like a mirror

I would use SW Drywall primer and at least Super Paint if I was using SW( which personally, I would not)

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Old 08-07-2013, 07:18 AM   #3
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in my world the walls are never paint ready .it would be nice to open up paint and start to cut and roll. But that's not reality, at least for me.as a painter I know that there will be minor sanding and a few scratches and dings per room and my price will reflect that .1 primer coat s/w drywall primer and 2 coats ,I like cashmere low luster for walls .p/s talk with your painter about your concerns with walls.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:30 AM   #4
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I agree with both the above posts. As a painter yes there will always be some minor touch-ups but it sounds like yours are more than minor. And yes clean up is part of the job. From what you said it sounds like this job was subbed out (from the guy saying he shouldn't have taken the job) the owner should know every concern you have and not use this guy again.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:53 AM   #5
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Like others have said---use a good primer--then make any touch up to the drywall--prime the touch ups--then two coats of good paint.

In my world, some touch ups are expected on new work-----pro painters know this---if the work requires a bunch of touch ups---then the taper would be called in to correct them---but a few missed spots? That's the painters job.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #6
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"I had hired, I thought, a good company to skim coat and mud/tape the new drywall we had in the kitchen/family room/laundry room."

You haven't told us about his priming/painting job, or indeed if any was contracted for originally...from what I read, he was only hired to skim coat the area - not prime it.

And as you've probably gathered, there are indeed standards issued by the gypsum industry as to the levels of finish you require, and some of the levels (the last 1 or 2 at least) require a primer to be applied. Now you don't say anything about his priming - so perhaps he wasn't intending to.

Taking that one step further, if he understood you - or someone else were to be the "painter", then he just did his plastering job and left it, assuming a pro painter would clean up the knicks etc and sand it down the way he wants.

Guess it comes down to if or not he said it would be "paint-ready"...and who knows at this point.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #7
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I could understand a few inperfections here and there but not as many as there are. By paint ready I mean that the dust from all the sanding would be off of the walls/ceilings. I've had to wipe down every one and it's quite a bit.

So to recap, one coat of primer but not the PVA? I have used already one five gallon tub and need to go get more primer. When I was at SW and asked the guy for the drywall primer he was the one to suggest the PVA and a painter that was in there at the time. Oh do I need to sand down all the primer? It has left a "gritty" feeling (for lack of a better word) but is that what it is supposed to do?

Cashmere paint... I'll look into that one today. They are having a sale until tomorrow so I want to get the paint before then. The SW guy suggested the HGTV paint saying it's the middle of the road one. Yes I am picky but also poor at this point

My "painter" unfortunately is me. I say unfortunately because I have so much to paint but the budget will not take another $3500 to paint the interior of the house.

I should cut in first right and just the areas I can keep wet. What is best to cut in with on smooth walls?

Thank you for your help!

Tina
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
"I had hired, I thought, a good company to skim coat and mud/tape the new drywall we had in the kitchen/family room/laundry room."

You haven't told us about his priming/painting job, or indeed if any was contracted for originally...from what I read, he was only hired to skim coat the area - not prime it.

And as you've probably gathered, there are indeed standards issued by the gypsum industry as to the levels of finish you require, and some of the levels (the last 1 or 2 at least) require a primer to be applied. Now you don't say anything about his priming - so perhaps he wasn't intending to.

Taking that one step further, if he understood you - or someone else were to be the "painter", then he just did his plastering job and left it, assuming a pro painter would clean up the knicks etc and sand it down the way he wants.

Guess it comes down to if or not he said it would be "paint-ready"...and who knows at this point.
Well this is my first and last foray into getting the walls skimmed. No it did not include the primer/paint but he said it would be paint ready. So to me, the consumer, I would think the walls would have been cleaned so either myself or if I had hired someone, could start. :-(

I guess it is all a learning esperience. It does look great otherwise though!!
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:13 AM   #9
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Yes--a quick light sanding is standard practice after priming with new work--

Get a sanding stick and 150 grit--and a sanding sponge for the edges and corners----all you are doing is knocking off any bits of crud and dust that is stuck to the primer---so light and qiuck is the best way---

Dust off the wall---vacuum off the moldings and start painting--(after you caulk where needed)

Many painters like to do the ceiling first---then the trim--last thing--the walls---

I prefer this order of painting----

Most painte
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaV


I should cut in first right and just the areas I can keep wet. What is best to cut in with on smooth walls?

Thank you for your help!

Tina






































If your doing multiple coats, it can be advantageous to roll the first coat before cutting in.
There are a few reasons why this is often better. For one, its easier. Roll as close to the surfaces you will have to cut to (doors, windows,ceilings) as you can. Let it dry, then cut in. There will be less area that needs cutting in if you roll fairly close to everything.

Also rolling first lessens the overlap where cut meets roll. And reduces the chance of 'picture framing' where there is a darker band around the room everywhere the overlap is.

For the finish coat, cutting in first is generally preferred because rolling last allows you to cover some of the brush strokes from cut in with roller stipple, making for a more uniform look.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaV View Post
Well this is my first and last foray into getting the walls skimmed. No it did not include the primer/paint but he said it would be paint ready. So to me, the consumer, I would think the walls would have been cleaned so either myself or if I had hired someone, could start. :-(

I guess it is all a learning esperience. It does look great otherwise though!!
I think what it comes down to is what various people call "paint-ready"; it may well be that what a tradesperson calls 'paint-ready' and what a consumer calls 'paint-ready' may differ. I know a pro painter would come in and expect there to be dust everywhere, and for there to be repairs he would have to make - but all that is included in his price.

He might have meant "painter-ready" i.e ready for you LOL. Glad it's working out tho'!
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle

I think what it comes down to is what various people call "paint-ready"; it may well be that what a tradesperson calls 'paint-ready' and what a consumer calls 'paint-ready' may differ. I know a pro painter would come in and expect there to be dust everywhere, and for there to be repairs he would have to make - but all that is included in his price.

He might have meant "painter-ready" i.e ready for you LOL. Glad it's working out tho'!
I don't think I have ever went to a job with new drywall where the sheet rockers had dusted the walls. If your lucky, they sanded with a dustless system. But even then, more dusting is usually necessary.

As far as the touch up/ extra sanding, some of that can be expected.
Its kinda like setting nails, the details often get left to the painter.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #13
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Well that would have been nice to know :/. I think we are just frustrated with this company as it took a lot longer than expected which was totally okay since they were doing such a great job but then the last day they rushed it. Some places were touched up but not sanded, the mess on the floor that wasn't scraped off the concrete, the dust on the floor was an inch thick in some areas that wasn't vacuumed up. Then on top if those items the walls needing to be sanded in a lot of areas to fix and dusted to boot! I hate dusting!!!

Hubby said in the bedrooms we are going to put two coats on the ceiling so the old tape/mud/stains don't bleed through and I think one one the walls is good. Then two coats of paint. Yikes I best get going!!!

PVA though is that okay? I don't know and two painters we talked to recommended it,

I just want this house finished so we can move in!!!

Thanks again!
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:41 PM   #14
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As for which primer, I really can't make a choice for you, from where I am but I can tell you that PVA stands for 'polyvinyl alcohol' and is the name of the base resin used in most cheaper paints...

"PVA" is to paint resins what "Chevrolet" is to "fine American cars". There is nothing wrong with PVA resins for paints, it just doesn't have all the 'scrubbability' or workability etc features of the more expensive paint resins. It'll do the job required of it though, as long as that job is simple and straight-forward. So it maybe good for ceiling paint for example.
"Hubby said in the bedrooms we are going to put two coats on the ceiling so the old tape/mud/stains don't bleed through and I think one one the walls is good"
So, a PVA primer may require one more coat to, say, cover a stain than a specialty primer would need...like Zinsser products. But the only difference there is the time your are going to invest.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:26 PM   #15
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So the owner just came out and we discussed the mess left behind and the other issues. He now says it is paint "prep" ready whatever that may mean... Anyways he took some off of what j owed him and I guess based on what you guys said I would have sanding in my future no matter what.

He did say that "gripper" primer by glidden is better and after hearing that PVA is the Chevy to fine cars I would like more of the Cadillac (Ferrari even). But am on a beer budget ha ha ha' so what do you think of the gripper?

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