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Old 11-03-2013, 11:01 AM   #16
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sherwin williams Paints?


Boa, we have all been in your shoes, believe me! I don't think you have to prime again, but, depending on coverage, you may have to put two more coats on the walls. It will depend on just how fussy you or your wife are about how it looks. The thing is, by the time you get furniture in there and put pics, etc. up on the walls, well, any shortcomings will likely be hidden. If the ceiling is freshly coated, I would definitely do some spot touch ups and call it a day.

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Old 11-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #17
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. At this point, you just need to tighten up your technique and get another coat on the wall.












































I will second this. Primer would have helped at the beginning, but where it's at now I believe a good coat would finish the job.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #18
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Ok, I'll through in.

I think we all agree that the coverage issues are being caused primarily by application errors.
Tool's advice is sound... If you plan on continuing the errors.

Lets think about why a top quality paint doesn't cover in three coats when it should cover in two. It goes back to what I've said before about one application not equaling one coat. This is a good example of the most common painting problem that I see, thin application. In an effort to get a 'smooth' job the paint was applied with a 1/4 nap roller and spread way too thin. The three 'coats' we are seeing in the pic likely equals about one coat in terms of film thickness.

Same thing with touching up the ceiling. You could touch that dark orange up 5 times with a thin coat of ceiling paint and not hide it, hence the need for primer. Where as 2-3 full coats of a decent ceiling paint would cover it.

As far as smoothness of the finished product, a much smoother film is produce when paint is applied at or near its recommended thickness and allowed to 'flow' out. Spreading too thin, and overworking the paint in an attempt at getting a 'smooth' job is self defeating.

The hard part is explaining how to do this. Really, a full coat can be applied with any size nap roller. It's just a little easier with a larger nap because you don't have to dip as often and uniform spreading can be archived more easily.
Typically, I would use a 3/8 roller and dip it three times for every two 8 foot runs. Roll it out only enough to distribute the paint evenly, not worrying too much about the 'nappiness' because if the paint is thick enough it will flow together and almost eliminate the nap. This needs to be done quickly, and ideally the last stroke of the roller should go in the same direction (down).

The main problem with this method is that if the coat is not spread evenly, runs will occur as the paint flows out.

Really hard to explain this method without a demonstration. I've been tinkering with application for years in an effort to get a full coat on in one application. It is not easy, but the results are worth it.

If you want to know how your application compares to what constitutes a full coat of paint, ask for a wet film thickness gauge from Sherwin Williams. They are usually free, and easy to use with simple direction. You can take readings of your wet coat and compare to the recommended wet film thickness for the paint your using (4mil for Emerald)
You can't see the reading too well in the pic, but that's the idea.
Really don't understand this statement, after reading both posts I thought we were pretty well in agreement except for the primer.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #19
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First debate, Is there anyone that thinks I might be able to get away without priming the walls over? I understand that it would be best, but If I come back with a nice generous coating, do I have a chance in it coming out ok?

Second debate, The paint on the ceiling is maybe a week old. I was hoping to spot prime and paint. We will be coming back with crown molding.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas on this problem. I'm use to painting boats, chipping, buffing rust, enrusting, priming and painting. But this is a new beast for me, its my home.
Yes I think you may get by with one coat on the walls.
If your crown hides where the wall paint is on the ceiling your good to go.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #20
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Really don't understand this statement, after reading both posts I thought we were pretty well in agreement except for the primer.

Yea, I should have worded that differently.
What I was referring too as 'errors' was the thin application. With a color like that, they could paint it two or three more times in the same manner (1/4" nap, rolled out thin) and it still not look right. In that case, I felt your suggestion to prime grey would be the way to go because a you said, its pretty un-even in the pics and another thin coat or two isn't likely to fix that totally.

To me, the pics look about like one full coat, it just took three applications to get it on.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:25 AM   #21
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Well, this is practically a clinic of painting errors.

First, I'm assuming what they mean by SuperPaint "doesn't work well" with this color is that technically SuperPaint probably doesn't come in the base required. IIRC SW calls this base "Color Accents", not SuperPaint.

jmays explained most of the technical details. 1/4" nap is ridiculous. There was no need for Emerald, but it is fine. Personally I use 1 full load of either a 3/8" or 1/2" roller for 1 8 foot section. Of course we are overlapping, so it's kind of a moot point - hard to tell if we're doing the exact same thing, but I tend to get about 320 sf per gallon, so as long as it's spread evenly, it's the coverage that determines film thickness.

If you are using crown molding, why is the top even being cut in? It looks bad up there, but I can't understand why they're even trying.

This should have had a gray shade of color primer underneath it. At this point I wouldn't bother any more. Just get someone in there who knows how to roll paint on and you might get it covered nicely in 1 more coat with a relatively opaque paint (although there is probably no such thing as opaque that comes in this color orange.)

If smoothness is truly a high priority, then use a 3/8" nap (not 1/2") and a paint such as Cashmere - it has levelers designed into it to reduce nap texture and create a flatter, smoother surface. I can't tell you if it will come in this color orange. Frankly, I've never painted anything in this color orange.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:32 AM   #22
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So she hires a handyman to help.
By the way, I just wanted to comment on this as well. It's very, very easy for us to sit here in this forum and say "aha - that's your problem. Hire a real pro next time."

But the facts are these. There are handymen who are excellent painters. They are the exception rather than the rule, because in general handymen tend to be... how should I say it?.... lower on the aesthetic scale than most homeowners would like. At the risk of insulting someone, I would put it gently by saying they are "salt of the earth", beer drinking kind of guys.

Now I was (or sometimes still am) a handyman myself, so obviously I don't think there's anything wrong with a handyman who does his homework and is competent with the skills he tries to sell.

Having said that, there are some truly crappy "professional" painters, or painting companies, as well. But the odds are, you are going to find more skill in a painting company than a generic handyman.

The bottom line is it's doesn't matter what the website is, where you found the guy, what his experience level is. All that matters is his skill and knowledge and reliability and integrity. If the guy flipping burgers could do this on the side, so be it. If the CEO living next door could do it, so be it. I wouldn't care. But your biggest task as a homeowner is doing your homework so that you find a quality person or crew to do the work.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:36 AM   #23
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Going to lean toward operator error, But for $70 a gallon (before 25%coupon) you would think you could pop the top and throw it on.
Not true. In fact this is not true as a general principle. You might think intuitively that the more something costs, the easier it is to use. Sometimes this is true, and sometimes the exact opposite is true. Go out and spend $300,000 on a racing car and see if it's easier to drive than your Camry.

Some of the more expensive tools and materials do certain things very well, but that does not necessarily mean they are easy for the inexperienced to use. An example is a very fast drying paint might be a quality a painter would like for some particular application, but that can also make it very difficult for a newbie to work with.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #24
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Jeff, I'd have to agree with you on the handyman (you get what you pay for). But if your a married man then you should understand when a women sets her mind to something and your not there to physically stop them, they are going to do it. She had good intentions. I had busted up my ribs on a motorcycle before leaving for work so she was trying to get it knocked out before I got back. Seems like it hurt more than helped.
As far as the cutting in, it might be a few weeks before we get to the crown molding, so its just something to get us by till then.
And your "Frankly, I've never painted anything in this color orange" That's kinda what we were shooting for.

I really do appreciate all the help and pointers you guys have gave me and I'll be using them when I get home tomorrow. I'm pretty I can make it livable .
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:01 PM   #25
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Jeff, I'd have to agree with you on the handyman (you get what you pay for).
Wasn't exactly what I was saying - you can pay a lot for crappy painting too

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your "Frankly, I've never painted anything in this color orange" That's kinda what we were shooting for.
I meant that since I haven't painted that kind of orange, I don't really know if SuperPaint or Cashmere can be tinted to that color.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #26
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Just for the record and an update, I was able to cover the walls with one coat using 3/8 nap roller. The ceiling I was able to touch up the spots with one coat to hold us over till the crown molding.

What is better to patch nail holes and small gaps in molding, drywall mud or caulking?

Thanks again for all the help.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:59 PM   #27
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Personally I would use caulking...latex.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:07 PM   #28
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Yea, caulk for any cracks/gaps. You can use mud for nail holes, but its not ideal. A good spackle like Dap crack shot works better. Over fill the holes a little and sand flush. The holes will disappear after painting. Caulk can be used for nail holes too, but its even less ideal than mud because it shrinks and leaves a divot where the hole was. Course, on crown it's not that noticeable, but still looks nicer if the holes are filled flush.

Glad it worked out for you.

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