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Old 11-01-2013, 08:46 PM   #1
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sherwin williams Paints?


Need a little input here.
My wife an I are redoing our living room, all new drywall and floors. We hung the drywall (had someone else finish it). Then I was called to work (offshore 14&14). So she was going to try to get it painted and ready for me to lay the floor when I get back in.
So she hires a handyman to help. They Primed all the walls with Valspar Gallon Interior Latex Primer. We picked a color from SW site (SW 6884 Obstinate Orange), so after reading reviews I sent her to get it in Superpaint satin. Well the salesman tells her that the color was to dark to use with superpaint and sold her the Emerald. After 3 coats, they still cant get rid of the roller marks.
I went back and was reading reviews on it and it seems a common problem.

So was the salesman just trying to push the Emerald paint on a women or can the Superpaint not really work well with darker colors?

Should I try another coat or swap to a different paint (if so what is recommended). Or could it be operator error,lol?
Thanks for any help on this.




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Old 11-01-2013, 09:05 PM   #2
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sherwin williams Paints?


#1, When going with a dark color like that I would have had the primer tinted to 50% of the color your going for.
#2, I would have also used a 1/2 Nap roller.
And yes that does not look like a pro painting job. First thing the ceiling should have been finished first then paint the wall. The way it is now your going to have to go back and use a stain blocking primer and repaint the ceiling.
There's to many starts and stops, no rolling from top to bottom once the paint was on the wall.
Looks like someone just went up and down in straight lines .

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Old 11-01-2013, 09:42 PM   #3
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sherwin williams Paints?


Classic case of not keeping a "wet edge." Once you start rolling a wall, well, you gotta hustle. Any stoppages and you are left with "holidays", "hat-banding", and lap marks, all of which seem to be in your picture. Emerald is a high quality paint but does have a bit of a learning curve to it. Some dark bases cannot be mixed in SuperPaint. I don't know the chemistry of why that is so, but, it is indeed true.

Bright colors are always problematic when it comes to coverage. Lots of colorant has to be added to the base to get that bright color at the expense of solids in the paint. Joe has some solid advice about the primer. Tinting it would give you a fighting chance at better coverage. At this point, you just need to tighten up your technique and get another coat on the wall.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:28 AM   #4
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Orange is basically Red and Yellow which are the two worst colors for coverage.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #5
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So we called an all stop on the project till I get home on the 5th.

Going to lean toward operator error, But for $70 a gallon (before 25%coupon) you would think you could pop the top and throw it on.

For the record they used 3/8 nap on the primer and 1/4 on top coat (wanted nice and smooth). So when I go back to do my coat, should I just use the 3/8 nap?

also I'll take the advise on touching up the ceiling with the stain covering primer.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:01 AM   #6
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for this color s/w recommends a gray tinted primer .you will notice a small p on the color chip,that will tell what shade of gray.at this point I think I would cut the ceiling let dry .then cut again and roll with a 1/2 inch Purdy white dove cover.i can say I don't know if the emerald paint trumps the need for a gray primer ,but I never had a problem when use the p primer system from s/w .to make matters worst a 1/4 cover has no place for rolling walls. imho
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #7
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Good info and ideas here, thanks.

I'll do the ceiling and then use the 1/2 roller.
The 1/4 was another suggestion from the salesman.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #8
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sherwin williams Paints?


1/4" nap was a HUGE part of the problem. In over 30 years of painting, I can count on one hand how many times I used 1/4" nap to paint drywall/plaster. You really got to load that roller up with paint. Make sure you saturate your cover with paint before applying paint to the wall. Then, when removing it from your paint tray, well, it should ALMOST be dripping with paint. Don't push, let the roller do the work. Firm, yet gentle up and down technique is best. If you push down on your roller cage, that's when you get lines in your paint finish.

Also, hopefully the salesman sold you a high quality Wooster or Purdy brush. Nothing more frustrating in life than cutting in with one of those stiff, black-bristled $1.99 brushes.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:40 PM   #9
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1/4 doesn't hold enough paint to do entire walls.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:03 PM   #10
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Basically what happened to you was this. Sheen + a difficult color. You have to be smooth with a roller to pull it off. Better left to a pro.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747 View Post
Basically what happened to you was this. Sheen + a difficult color. You have to be smooth with a roller to pull it off. Better left to a pro.

Maybe so, but I thought that was the purpose of the forum DIY?

I'll get it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #12
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You are correct it is a DIY forum but some jobs are difficult and hard to do long distance. Here is the way I would do it and there will others who disagree (although I don't know why.)
First prime over everything (first debate) including the ceiling. The walls should be primed gray as stated. The reason I say prime it all is because of the streaking. Paint is thicker in some places than others, primer will give you a uniform base. Prime the ceiling because of where the wall paint is on it. Prime it white. I say prime the entire ceiling because I think you will need to paint the entire ceiling (second debate.) The reason I say this because of the wall color if you spot prime and try to match the ceiling paint I feel it will really stand out. Especially if it has been awhile since the ceiling was painted
As stated get a quality brush, since you are dealing with Sherwin Williams get a Purdy while there. Also while there get a good roller cover I really like the Purdy Colossus (probably 3rd debate) in 1/2" nap. Use the search feature on the forum and others for cutting in ceiling. Also check out you tube for cutting in. Go out to your garage with some cardboard or suitable substrate and practice cutting in.
While you are at Sherwin Williams get enough Eminence ceiling paint to do your ceiling (4th debate) Just do not fall for the no primer. This is under normal conditions, not for the color you have around the edges.
Idaho painters has some videos on you tube for rolling walls that really show a good way to do it. I would suggest watching them.
I hope this helps you if you have any questions please ask.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:04 AM   #13
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Come on guys no debates. Is Jeff sick?
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:56 AM   #14
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Ok, I'll through in.

I think we all agree that the coverage issues are being caused primarily by application errors.
Tool's advice is sound... If you plan on continuing the errors.

Lets think about why a top quality paint doesn't cover in three coats when it should cover in two. It goes back to what I've said before about one application not equaling one coat. This is a good example of the most common painting problem that I see, thin application. In an effort to get a 'smooth' job the paint was applied with a 1/4 nap roller and spread way too thin. The three 'coats' we are seeing in the pic likely equals about one coat in terms of film thickness.

Same thing with touching up the ceiling. You could touch that dark orange up 5 times with a thin coat of ceiling paint and not hide it, hence the need for primer. Where as 2-3 full coats of a decent ceiling paint would cover it.

As far as smoothness of the finished product, a much smoother film is produce when paint is applied at or near its recommended thickness and allowed to 'flow' out. Spreading too thin, and overworking the paint in an attempt at getting a 'smooth' job is self defeating.

The hard part is explaining how to do this. Really, a full coat can be applied with any size nap roller. It's just a little easier with a larger nap because you don't have to dip as often and uniform spreading can be archived more easily.
Typically, I would use a 3/8 roller and dip it three times for every two 8 foot runs. Roll it out only enough to distribute the paint evenly, not worrying too much about the 'nappiness' because if the paint is thick enough it will flow together and almost eliminate the nap. This needs to be done quickly, and ideally the last stroke of the roller should go in the same direction (down).

The main problem with this method is that if the coat is not spread evenly, runs will occur as the paint flows out.

Really hard to explain this method without a demonstration. I've been tinkering with application for years in an effort to get a full coat on in one application. It is not easy, but the results are worth it.

If you want to know how your application compares to what constitutes a full coat of paint, ask for a wet film thickness gauge from Sherwin Williams. They are usually free, and easy to use with simple direction. You can take readings of your wet coat and compare to the recommended wet film thickness for the paint your using (4mil for Emerald)
You can't see the reading too well in the pic, but that's the idea.
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Last edited by Jmayspaint; 11-03-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #15
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First debate, Is there anyone that thinks I might be able to get away without priming the walls over? I understand that it would be best, but If I come back with a nice generous coating, do I have a chance in it coming out ok?

Second debate, The paint on the ceiling is maybe a week old. I was hoping to spot prime and paint. We will be coming back with crown molding.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas on this problem. I'm use to painting boats, chipping, buffing rust, enrusting, priming and painting. But this is a new beast for me, its my home.

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