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Old 10-17-2013, 01:45 PM   #1
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


I have been reading a lot of painting threads for paint types, primers and techniques. The home I purchased was smoked in for 16 years or more. Walls were washed with TSP, sanded and primed. House is almost ready for paint.

I am using SW ProClassic for Trim and Cabinets. SW SuperPaint Flat for Ceilings/Walls. SW SuperPaint Satin for Kitchen/Bathrooms.

I had originally planned to use Zinsser BIN as my primer, but the contractors refused to use it because it was extremely watery and was told it could not be rolled, only sprayed. I ended up purchasing Killz Max as my primer. 2 coats of primer in highly stained areas.

Now to the main questions.

1. Will SW ProClass semi-gloss be good enough for the trims and cabinets? Others have posted that SuperPaint is fine for trim in semi-gloss.

The Trim/Cabinets have also been washed with TSP, lightly sanded and primed with Killz Max.

This has been very stressful experience, hoping someone can confirm above is good enough. I had to choose the colors in a matter of 2 hours for the entire house.

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Old 10-17-2013, 03:32 PM   #2
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


The contractors are full of it. I use Bin all the time and never have sprayed it and that's what should have been used. The Kilz max MIGHT work, maybe

Yes, Pro classic for trim work.

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Old 10-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #3
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Appreciate the response. I haven't smelled the cigarette smell after priming. Is there a certain amount of time that I have to wait to know?

Killz Max is water based and the BIN is shellac based. Zinsser BIN was extremely thin and watery when the contractors showed it to me. I hate being held hostage by some contractors.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:10 AM   #4
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


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Appreciate the response. I haven't smelled the cigarette smell after priming. Is there a certain amount of time that I have to wait to know?

Killz Max is water based and the BIN is shellac based. Zinsser BIN was extremely thin and watery when the contractors showed it to me. I hate being held hostage by some contractors.

The max is supposed to work and if it is stuck tight after a day or 2 ,maybe it will. Personally, I would have used the Bin and only Bin for this( well, maybe Cover Stain) I assume you are paying the contractors? You should not feel like a hostage, there are plenty more out there.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:39 AM   #5
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


You need to find new painters. It's not like BIN is a new product it's been around for years and things like this is what it excels at. If they know this little about primer just think how little they know about paint where there are hundreds if not thousands of choices.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:01 AM   #6
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


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You need to find new painters. It's not like BIN is a new product it's been around for years and things like this is what it excels at. If they know this little about primer just think how little they know about paint where there are hundreds if not thousands of choices.
Thanks, Toolseeker, I think you said what many of us were thinking. CoverStain or BIN is the "go-to" primer in situations like this. Yeah, the BIN can be a bit watery, but who can argue with its' effectiveness.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:22 AM   #7
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Basically I have 2 choices:

1. Get new painters and have Zinsser BIN primed over the Killz Max. I still have 2 new 5 gallon tubs of the Zinsser BIN.

2. Take the risk and have house painted with the SW SuperPaint.

Killz Max has been on the wall 3 days. What a nightmare. Thanks guys.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:21 AM   #8
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Right off the top of my head I wouldn't trust a water based primer to cover smoke/nicotine. But then again, they improve paint products all the time, and Kilz does advertise a new formulation that will cover smoke, so I'm always willing to give something new a chance. If you don't smell anything for a few days it might be just fine.

BIN certainly was a good choice. It is quite thin, and therefore it sprays very well. However to say it can't be rolled is nonsense. It is a bit of a pain because you have to cover everything well since it can drip and splatter, but that's how it goes with shellac.

Probably your contractors are like so many - they get used to a small set of products and refuse to learn or try any others. It's outside their comfort zone so they tell you it shouldn't be done. It doesn't mean they can't get a good result with their own products, but it does limit them and in my eyes makes them less professional. Telling you it can't be put on with a roller is sort of idiotic if you think about it, since it says right on the can it can be applied with a 3/8" nap roller. It's always funny how many pros never even read directions.

If you have washed the walls and cabinets, sanded, and primed with a product from a reputable manufacturer that claims it will work well in your scenario, you ought to feel pretty comfortable moving forward, and SuperPaint is certainly a good quality product as well. What will you do with the BIN though?

Last edited by jeffnc; 10-18-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #9
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Jeffnc. Yeah it was a on the spot decision to use the Killz Max, which was $153 for 5ga. I am beyond frustrated. I dont even want to go to the house because I might go off on the painters.

I bought the Zinsser BIN from Home Depot, hopefully they will take the return. I did not use any of it.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #10
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


I understand what you mean about feeling like a hostage. The contractors have, or you think they have, so much more knowledge and experience than you, you have no way to have a healthy debate about it without resorting to putting in so much time researching things that you could become a contractor yourself.

I see this with customers all the time. They get in a situation, they call in 3 contractors (say I'm the 3rd), and I see they've been told several different things by the time I'm done with them. Maybe 1 proposal was acceptable, 1 was nonsense, and 1 was optimal. But how do they tell which was which, when each contractor was equally confident in his opinion? So often customers have a problem that needs to be solved, and they just assume the "pros" know exactly the "proper" solution to that problem. But some problems are not like that - some are fuzzy and subjective and have multiple ways of being solved.

Of course one solution is to come to a place like this where there are multiple responders, and answers are peer reviewed. In this case, the advice you got here was unanimous (i.e. BIN would have been very good, the Kilz might be fine as well, and your contractors might well be capable of giving you a good result but their overall knowledge and experience are lacking.)

In some other cases you'll see arguments here about the answers. Life is just like that - sometimes there just isn't a clear answer. You just have to listen and research and learn, or else just trust some contractor who has good feedback.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:50 AM   #11
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


I think many of us that have been painting professionally for a long time have a hard time trusting new products/technologies.
We know what works, and are hesitant to take a chance on something new.

Water base primers are getting better. Kilz 2 was a big disappointment, but maybe they have got it right with this new formulation.

I second Jeff's statement that if the Kilz product was applied to spec, and is labeled as suitable for your application, you should be fine.
If this is the case, the only 'risk' you will be taking is trusting a new technology.

I hope the finishing of this job goes well for you. Sounds like a stressful experience so far.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #12
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Update: I decided redoing the primer w/Zinsser was going to be too time consuming and costly. Good news so far, I cannot smell the cigarette smell/nicotine on the walls, it has been 5 days.

Painting walls/ceilings has already begun, each with 2 coats.

Question on a custom wood cabinet with 20 drawers built into the wall. Will SW SuperPaint Satin work instead of SW ProClassic Semi-Gloss?
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #13
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


SuperPaint will "work" but you will be more likely to see brush strokes in the finish than if you used a paint designed for trim work. It probably depends on how high end of a finish you're looking for. I used SuperPaint all the time for baseboards and door trim, but then these are not million dollar houses, and people don't get a very close look at baseboards, and in many cases I'm repainting over a previous coat that already has a bit of brush stroke in it. It's not a "glass like" finish, but usually it's OK. Also most trim is "wavy" and has detail, so that breaks up the surface, whereas a cabinet is a big, flat, smooth surface. On a flat kitchen cabinet right at eye level, I'd probably want something better.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #14
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Thanks Jeff great advice. The master bedroom cabinet has paint on it already. I just wiped down with TSP, water and sanded lightly and wiped down again. You can definitely see brush strokes on it.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:59 PM   #15
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Sherwin Williams Paint for Trim/Walls Help


Don't know why I was thinking kitchen, but as far as that goes, it partly depends on how flat the drawer fronts are. As for the top, that can be laid on more thickly, which will help the paint flow out. But that top part will be visible, so it depends on how nice you want it. If I were putting anything heavy or metallic on it, or if it will get much wear, I'd consider a waterborne alkyd if not standard oil. Acrylic paints are better nowadays, but I still don't always trust that something won't stick to it.

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