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Old 08-02-2014, 03:25 PM   #1
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling

We just had all our first floor rooms painted by a paint contractor. All the walls and ceilings are Level 5 smooth. All the walls and the kitchen ceiling were painted with Sherwin-Williams Emerald satin paint in Greek Villa (cool white). The paint on all the walls and kitchen ceiling was applied by cutting in and rolling with a 1/4” nap Wooster roller sleeve. The results were excellent.

For the large 24’ x 14’ ceiling we went with Sherwin-Williams flat Superpaint in Greek Villa (cool white) to match the color of the walls. Prior to painting this ceiling received a tight skim coat of drywall compound to create a new level 5 finish. At the recommendation of the Sherwin-Williams sales representative a single coat of Sherwin-Williams Premium Wall & Wood Primer was sprayed on the skim coat surface. Next two coats of Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint were sprayed on and the finish when dry had a stripped appearance where the spray pattern overlapped.

The paint contractor said he has never experienced this before and I asked the Sherwin-Williams sales representative to stop by and suggest a remedy. He suggested that the paint should be sprayed perpendicular to the light entering the room (parallel to the windows) and back rolled right behind the spraying. This was done yesterday and now we have the same striping going parallel to the windows.

Has anyone ever seen this before? Is flat Superpaint problematic in this application with a lot of light entering the room through the windows? I found two comments on Paint Talk that makes me wonder if Superpaint is the problem.

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/ceiling-...46/#post338170

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/flat-cei...x2/#post428862

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Old 08-02-2014, 05:42 PM   #2
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


sounds like an application problem to me

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Old 08-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #3
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


It's unusual to have problems with FLAT paint on a level 5 skim coated finish, so, I agree with Chris that an application problem is the cause here. Also, heat pools at a ceiling so if it was a hot day, the paint dried almost as fast as it was put on. I don't use SuperPaint on ceilings, I usually use Promar 200 or 400 as they are more of a DEAD flat. PPG also makes a great flat ceiling paint, although this info is little help to you now. Pics would help.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:42 PM   #4
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


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It's unusual to have problems with FLAT paint on a level 5 skim coated finish, so, I agree with Chris that an application problem is the cause here. Also, heat pools at a ceiling so if it was a hot day, the paint dried almost as fast as it was put on. I don't use SuperPaint on ceilings, I usually use Promar 200 or 400 as they are more of a DEAD flat. PPG also makes a great flat ceiling paint, although this info is little help to you now. Pics would help.
The current plan is for them to come back and spray with a so called enamel tip without back rolling. We are open to using a different ceiling paint that is dead flat. I will try and post a photo tomorrow of the striping. Which PPG flat ceiling paint are you referring to?
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:10 PM   #5
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


This is what I use but I don't know how well it sprays. I know it rolls on as a dead flat.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:19 PM   #6
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


super paint flat is my every day ceiling paint .there is a very slight angle sheen ,but that has never been a problem or questioned by my clients. personally I could have rolled out that ceiling with a 9 inch roller and a 1/2 inch micro fiber cover in under an hour , along with the other brush and roller painters on this site.no lap marks perfect .as for the other room using a 1/4 nap cover well I don't know ,I think you just got lucky.Ok with that said if you do spray you still have to back roll anyways .a soft stipple is desirable IMHO
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:25 PM   #7
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


Get SW ProMar 400 flat. It's a ceiling - no need to get anything else.
I'd use nothing shorter than a 3/4" roller to backroll and don't skimp when spraying the paint on.
Wall paint should ALWAYS be backrolled on interiors. I've seen jobs where the initial paint was not done right - and getting rid of the roller marks is nearly impossible without a dead flat backrolled.

And a competent backroller and spray applicator are key.
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:47 AM   #8
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


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This is what I use but I don't know how well it sprays. I know it rolls on as a dead flat.
have they changed the can? I have not seen that one before
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:27 AM   #9
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


As you can see there are many different opinions. And opinions are like rear ends everybody has one and most of them stink. So I guess I will add mine and you can pick the one you like best.

First I can't believe you got that lucky doing walls with a 1/4" roller. I never use super paint on ceilings. I have never heard of an enamel tip. The stripping could have been caused by a couple things too small a tip, a blown tip, or not overlapping enough. Should be 50% overlap. Unless it's new drywall I usually don't bankroll ceilings. A 3/4" nap roller for a ceiling is way too much nothing over 1/2".

I guess my next thing is why would you pay the super high price for a level 5 finish and then put flat paint over it. Level 5 was designed for like hospitals and schools where the lighting is extreme. Then painted with gloss or semi gloss paint so the finish has to be perfect as everything would show. Kinda got off topic sorry.
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:57 AM   #10
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


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have they changed the can? I have not seen that one before
Chris, unfortunately for me, the only place that carries PPG paint is Menard's and I am guessing that is the labeling used specifically for Menard's which is like Lowes and HD only better in my opinion.

On a side note: I dread painting ceilings. Not because they are terribly difficult but because the lighting/angular sheen sure can make a disaster over what should be a part of the job that looks great. Nothing makes me cringe more than unexpected overlaps on a ceiling.

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Old 08-03-2014, 09:44 AM   #11
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


A lot of this thread confuses me. Level 5 ceilings to prepare for flat paint? 1/4" roller covers? 3/4" roller covers? What's going on here?

I've used plenty of SuperPaint Extra White flat on ceilings and never had a problem, so I can't be of much help in solving. I guess the only thing that strikes me is that this all sounds kind of overengineered and overcomplicated, which might be contributing problems. It's not a huge ceiling, why not just roll that paint straight on with a 14" roller? Obviously spraying has some great benefits, but in this case could just lead to premature drying, or incorrect overlapping. This is in a situation where you're going to be rolling anyway. I'd just put on a generous, wet coat. Although at this point, I suppose it's possible there are some ridge marks left by backrolling that are showing through? Using a short nap cover for a painting job like this (1/4") might lead to pressing too hard with the roller, potentially leaving edge marks.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:50 AM   #12
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


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Originally Posted by ltd View Post
super paint flat is my every day ceiling paint .there is a very slight angle sheen ,but that has never been a problem or questioned by my clients. personally I could have rolled out that ceiling with a 9 inch roller and a 1/2 inch micro fiber cover in under an hour , along with the other brush and roller painters on this site.no lap marks perfect .as for the other room using a 1/4 nap cover well I don't know ,I think you just got lucky.Ok with that said if you do spray you still have to back roll anyways .a soft stipple is desirable IMHO
And that is more than likely the problem here. On a ceiling that is 24' in and one direction you want a dead flat paint unless you are trying to highlight a texture. That's almost the same as sighting down a long hallway with your head up against the wall. You are always going to see something. In my opinion that ceiling really should have had a texture and should have had a dead flat paint.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:06 PM   #13
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


Here are two photographs of the striping (banding). It was difficult to capture due to overcast lighting from outside.





Here are a few photographs of the walls. There are no roller marks and the painter was able to apply a nice consistent finish with the 1/4” nap roller sleeve.







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Old 08-03-2014, 04:18 PM   #14
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


I've always found that rolling parallel to the critical light source helped more that rolling perpendicular to obscure roller tracks. Also, having the finish roller strokes all in the same direction will help with flashing. It doesn't usually matter with flat paint, but with that much light and a super smooth ceiling...


What it looks like to me is regular old flashing caused by back and forth rolling, with no overlap to ensure the final strokes all went the same way.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:01 PM   #15
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Sherwin-Williams Flat Superpaint Striping On Ceiling


So far there are lots of different opinions. I would like to talk with Rbriggs82 over on Paint Talk since he had a similar problem with a ceiling using Superpaint, but that forum is only for professional painters.

Today I received e-mails from two licensed painting contractors who have seen the job before it was painted.

This first comment is from the painter who also saw the initial striping from the first application of two coats of S-W flat Superpaint. They are recommending KM #1005 flat paint for a dead flat paint.

“I have a sneaky suspicion that it’s the paint, its so reminiscent of the striping I had experienced with another one of S-W products. My suggestion is to use seal grip primer from BM and use a different paint.”

This is the comment from the second painter:

“I don't use a lot of super paint flat. So I don't know a lot about it. My favorite flat paint is Kelly Moore's 550. My only suggestion would be to make sure that the tip on the spraygun is new so it won't streak. When the tip is knew it will not streak. When the tip is old are worn out it will streak and stripe. So many painters these days try to get as many gallons out of the tip that they can. That is the only thing that I can recommend. You should not have that problem when you back roll, though. I am really lost on that large ceiling. I have never seen anything like this in my whole 43 years of painting.”

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