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Old 05-08-2013, 11:13 AM   #1
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


Painting wainscoting using SW ProClassic acrylic latex. First coat over Zin 123 went on fine, but noticed a little show thru, so I wanted another coat. Second coat wasn't nearly as easy to apply as it was over the primer, so I guess I ended up using bit more paint to ease its application. Didn't notice sagging as I was moving down the line, but now that it's been drying awhile, it's sag city. It is definitely not DRY now, but I know if I try to brush it out it will look like butt.

What's worse...trying to brush it out and attempting to correct with a few more coats or waiting for it to dry and scraping/sanding it off and starting over?

Grrr....

Good thing I noticed this before I was done. Less than 1/2 thru, so it could have been worse.

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #2
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


do over

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:35 AM   #3
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


If you did not notice you were over applying paint as you went, and it sagged or ran and started to dry? You will now have to wait and dry to sand what sagged. You may find you clog a fair amount of sandpaper doing this with anything but flat as "enamels" take 30 days to cure. Just be patient.

Then re-coat taking care to check your work as you go. Did you use too thick a roller cover? Did you let the first coat surface dry or did you race it? I am wondering why your second coat would have been any more of challenge than the first unless you were racing the materials. This seldom works out well.

You should have waited the minimum amount of time on the can to recoat, and perhaps overnight depending on how humid and the temp in the room, for the second coat. Otherwise, your second coat and the roller reacts with the paint on the wall and sort of gets sucked into the first coat without putting paint over it. Or worse, with crappy paint, it will pull the first coat off on the roller cover.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:05 PM   #4
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


You're saying I should wait until the paint is cured to sand the sags and repaint? That's fine with me...just want to be clear.

I waited 24 hours between coats. It just went over the primer much easier...can't tell you why. I am brushing the wainscoting (4" panels w/ 3" brush)...you suggest rolling it? Won't that have an odd look to it, being that it's a smooth surface as opposed to semi-smooth (such as drywall)? What kind of nap?

Anyway, as I was painting and looking back over the panels I just painted, I didn't notice the sag. It wasn't until say 30 min later (when I was done with an entire section) that I checked back over it and saw the sag.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:00 PM   #5
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


That is the main problem with most of the WB enamels- the " learning curve" . How to apply just enough, not too much or little.
Believe it or not I think just a hint of water makes it flow out smoother, and a bit thinner, doesn't retard drying and makes for less sags.

You were fine in amount of time.
I often apply a few boards of that wains with a roller and then back brush it in. Faster app but still a brush finish. All things take a bit of a touch-
That's why I have a job..
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:16 PM   #6
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


That still leaves you with a situation you need to fix though. As mentioned, you now have uncured semi, satin or some sort of "enamel" on the wainscoting? It has only surfaced cured so you will go through a lot of paper as you scratch that surface off and hit gooey stuff underneath. It will work but if you can wait 30 days for the paint to cure, it may go faster.

Others will have different opinions and hopefully an approach I never considered. I just helped one of my painter offspring out with a client this morning and am exhausted and feeling truly retired and pre-geezer old! I almost ran out of nice and came close to my "Favorite Words of the Devil" dictionary. Even the Spanish version of it came back to me but I stayed cool.

I liked clients in the Blue Collar Trades better than those I had in the White Collar world. But you know? If I had been allowed to paint just what I wanted, in the colors I knew were better, and with materials I knew were superior? I would have been much happier. Clients can be idjuts. They are, conceptually and actually, the only thing wrong with any cleint service business! Get rid of them all say I. Leave piles of money on a picnic table somewhere, with instructions to paint something properly and make it look nicer? I know guys (and even one girl that is almost as good a trim painter as me) that would go for it and do fair and decent work under such circumstances.

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Old 05-08-2013, 03:17 PM   #7
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


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Originally Posted by Brushjockey View Post
You were fine in amount of time.
What do you mean by this? I messed with one of the sags (in an inconspicuous area) when discovered and it was definitely gummy and looked terrible afterwards. Maybe that's better than a sag that I'll have to sand out later, though.

Thanks for the tip about thinning with a bit of water.

It's a satin luster so the sags are not glaring now that it has dried. I will just wait until it has cured and sand the areas I need to and correct. The sag will kill me in the mean time but I'll try to get over it. :D

I picked up a 1/4" nap roller and will try a less important area of the (massive) room with that to see if it saves time.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #8
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


I meant recoat time. Usually it's best to let a sag be and not touch it while drying.
I never have the opportunity to wait 30 days to correct a problem, so I find a way to do it when dry, not "cured"
Almost all fixes will end in a repaint of the affected surface. Nice part about wains is that might just be one board.
SDS is right- doesn't sand well. I will carve off sag with a sharp putty knife or something, maybe take alcohol on a rag to smooth out, maybe spackle remainder, sand that, reprime ( or spot twice with finish and then do the continuous surface.
That way it's fixed right away- screw the 30 days.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:53 PM   #9
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


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I picked up a 1/4" nap roller and will try a less important area of the (massive) room with that to see if it saves time.
1/4" rollers are for applying contact cement. They have no use in the painting world, IMO. 3/8 minimum. 1/2 most often. And even thought it still gets me in trouble suggesting it? I like 3/4 for lots of things. Of course thicker nap for textures.

You cannot get enough paint into 1/4" nap roller to accomplish anything.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


[QUOTE=Brushjockey;1175120]That is the main problem with most of the WB enamels- the " learning curve" . How to apply just enough, not too much or little.
Believe it or not I think just a hint of water makes it flow out smoother, and a bit thinner, doesn't retard drying and makes for less sags.

You were fine in amount of time.
I often apply a few boards of that wains with a roller and then back brush it in. Faster app but still a brush finish. All things take a bit of a touch-
That's why I have a job..[/QUOTE]


me too
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:21 PM   #11
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


s/w pro sag, or I mean pro classic does have a learning curve as mentioned. Some things you can do is keep your cutting bucket paint fresh by adding paint often. Also put a splash of water in cutting bucket to thin .stir it good . one thing you can do , if you see a run and its starting to set up wet your thumb and kind of lightly rub it out. as to sanding a sag I like 3m type sand paper and ill spray it with water and wet sand it lightly. I can make that pro sag or I mean pro classic look like old school oil paint .its a learning curve for the pros also .so don't feel bad
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:45 PM   #12
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ltd
s/w pro sag, or I mean pro classic does have a learning curve as mentioned. Some things you can do is keep your cutting bucket paint fresh by adding paint often. Also put a splash of water in cutting bucket to thin .stir it good . one thing you can do , if you see a run and its starting to set up wet your thumb and kind of lightly rub it out. as to sanding a sag I like 3m type sand paper and ill spray it with water and wet sand it lightly. I can make that pro sag or I mean pro classic look like old school oil paint .its a learning curve for the pros also .so don't feel bad
Yes, it will flow out beautifully if you get it just right.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:51 PM   #13
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I consider myself a pretty good DIY painter; all my lines are clean and a finished room always ends up looking really nice. This is my first time painting anything with ProClassic besides bathroom trim, so I was a bit wigged out by the sag.

Tell you what, though -- the kid's bath (trim and door) was the first and only time I had used ProClassic until now. Two coats and no sagging of any kind. HOWEVER, it was the "hybrid" ProClassic (waterborne acrylic alkyd). I noticed this time when I asked for ProClassic, they gave me the acrylic latex. I asked what the difference was in application and performance and the manager said there was NO difference, except that the hybrid was good to go over oil and was a little less smelly. I asked what she would use over Zin 123 and she said to go with the latex, that I would notice NO difference in performance. Hmmm...
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:06 AM   #14
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


She obviously has never painted anything in her life
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #15
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SaaaaaaaaaaaG. What to do when you catch it after drying has begun...


Well, I added just a bit of water to my cutting bucket and stirred it well, and it caused the paint to start to set up almost immediately after applied. This was done on a rear storm door and the brush marks are the worst ever. And I know how to smooth my brush marks out. We'll see if it will "self level" enough to not be toooooo noticeable...

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