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Old 07-22-2012, 07:28 PM   #1
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Which primer/sealer?


Interior walls for child's room. Entire wallpaper has been removed but some tough residual glue remains. The original walls are lightly textured and painted, and I'm less worried about the textural appearance, and more concerned with adhesion. There will be some slight patching (joint compound). Which sequence should I follow?

Mud, prime, paint?
Prime, mud, prime, paint?
What kind of primer?

Thanks.

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Old 07-22-2012, 08:52 PM   #2
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Which primer/sealer?


Good cleaning, gardz primer, compound, anther coat of primer (1-2-3, fresh start, aqua lock, etc), topcoat, enjoy =)

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Old 07-22-2012, 08:54 PM   #3
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Which primer/sealer?


First- really try and get as much of the paste off as you can. A 6" scraper, a rough scrubbie help.
Then I would prime with Gardz or oil . Pretty much no other choices will seal the paste in as well. Then mud, sand, reprime ( with same or any other quality primer) and paint.

Good luck!
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:17 PM   #4
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Which primer/sealer?


So...

Clean, prime, mud, prime, paint. Whew!

Thanks.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
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Which primer/sealer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
So...

Clean, prime, mud, prime, paint. Whew!
Of course the second priming is only over the small patched areas, not the whole wall. If you're using flat paint I wouldn't even bother with that. If you're using eggshell/satin, you could get inconsistent sheen if you don't seal the joint compound first.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
So...

Clean, prime, mud, prime, paint. Whew!

Thanks.

You forgot sanding the mud- thats the best part!! lol
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:36 PM   #7
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Which primer/sealer?


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You forgot sanding the mud- thats the best part!! lol

I find blowing you're nose at the end of a sanding day to be the best part.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Brushjockey

You forgot sanding the mud- thats the best part!! lol
Yes...Mud management during application is crucial. And, it is quite easy to learn...just go wild with the mud a few times and you'll learn a lesson or two.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #9
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Always prime patches, even when using flat paint. Maybe you will get lucky and it will not show but you need to seal and prime the patch for long term adhesion. You cannot go back and do it later. Paint and primer are not the same thing.

Make sure to use wide drywall blades when patching or skim coating walls. Much mud buildup is from using blades too small and the ridges they make at their edges. A wide blade gives you more of a surface reference too.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
Always prime patches, even when using flat paint. Maybe you will get lucky and it will not show but you need to seal and prime the patch for long term adhesion. You cannot go back and do it later. Paint and primer are not the same thing.
Actually they can be, but anyway it's a moot point. Quality paints are basically self priming in this context. For examples, Sherwin Williams Super Paint and Benjamin Moore Regal are both warranted over plain drywall (without separate primer) and both are described in their technical sheets as being self priming for this application. Two coats are recommended for true color depth and finish thickness. But normally you can save yourself the expense and time of a third coat.

If paint adheres to joint compound, it is not "lucky". It simply works that way. If it doesn't, something else is wrong.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:31 AM   #11
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Actually they can be, but anyway it's a moot point. Quality paints are basically self priming in this context. For examples, Sherwin Williams Super Paint and Benjamin Moore Regal are both warranted over plain drywall (without separate primer) and both are described in their technical sheets as being self priming for this application. Two coats are recommended for true color depth and finish thickness. But normally you can save yourself the expense and time of a third coat.

If paint adheres to joint compound, it is not "lucky". It simply works that way. If it doesn't, something else is wrong.

If I was paying for the paint, I would buy primer that is formulated for drywall as opposed to the more expensive finish paint. In fact, even if I was not paying for the paint,I would prime with a proper drywall primer, the self priming crap, I don't get. Proper primer is less expensive than finish paint, period.......
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:38 AM   #12
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Actually they can be,
Primer and paint, and most recently stain blocker, primer and paint in one exist only the sick minds of marketing people and the consumers wanting to believe it true. Granted some products might not require priming over new drywall and floor paints do not recommend using a primer under them. They do not claim to be primer and paint in one though. You cannot skip the equivalent of the sealer/primer coat on new drywall.

Why use an extra coat of premium finish as the necessary drywall sealer/primer layer though? It would be wasteful and expensive and the right primer will have superior sealing and priming properties to finish paint anyhow.

And in this case, the OP does not have new drywall. He/she has dinged up board he is patching and I say again those patches should be primed so he stars with an even playing field.

Last edited by user1007; 07-26-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:39 AM   #13
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In fact, even if I was not paying for the paint,I would prime with a proper drywall primer, the self priming crap, I don't get.
It is not "self priming crap", it's some of the best quality paint that exists. Different applications require different types of primers, and in this context, regular high solids paint works.

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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
Proper primer is less expensive than finish paint, period.......
This is obviously false. Two coats of finish paint is less expensive than 1 coat of primer and two coats of finish paint.

It's also sometimes even false in the other scenario, where you used 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of finish paint vs. 2 coats of finish paint. This scenario might occur when painting a light colored eggshell paint over unfinished drywall. In this case if you used a high solids, high hide paint such as Super Paint, you might get by with 1 coat of finish paint and achieve proper color. If you wanted to try this, you would have to use a sealer first for proper sheen. Let's consider the costs in this scenario:

1 Primer/ 1 Finish coat:
- let's say primer costs $20/gal. and let's say finish is $32/gal. For a master bedroom of size 16 x 13 with 9 foot ceilings, or a total wall area of approximately 460 sf when accounting for doors/windows. This will require 2 gal of primer and 2 gal of finish coat for a total cost of $104.

2 Finish coats:
- same bedroom will require 3 gal of finish paint for a total cost of $96.

It is cheaper to use all finish paint in this scenario. So obviously, which is cheaper depends on how much square footage you're painting and the costs of the primer and paint.

Last edited by jeffnc; 07-26-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:47 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
Granted some products might not require priming over new drywall and floor paints do not recommend using a primer under them. They do not claim to be primer and paint in one though. You cannot skip the equivalent of the sealer/primer coat on new drywall.
You can call the paint a primer or you can say that drywall doesn't require primer, either way you choose to look at it, if a major and quality paint manufacturer gives a warranty on their paint and recommends it's use without primer (or calls it self-priming in this context), then it's legitimate.

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Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
Why use an extra coat of premium finish as the necessary drywall sealer/primer layer though? It would be wasteful and expensive and the right primer will have superior sealing and priming properties to finish paint anyhow.
First, see my other post to see why premium finish paint can actually be cheaper. Second, you could also claim that 2x8 studs in your walls are stronger than 2x4 studs, therefore you should use 2x8 studs for wall construction. It's not done because it's not necessary, regardless of how "superior" it might be. It simply makes no difference.

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Originally Posted by sdsester View Post
And in this case, the OP does not have new drywall. He/she has dinged up board he is patching and I say again those patches should be primed
Of course when manufacturers state that their paint can go directly over new drywall, they are talking about both the exposed paper and the joint compound as well.

First you are arguing that sealer/primer is a less expensive option than using premium paint to "prime". Now you are suggesting that they go out and buy a sealer/primer in addition to the paint they already have that could do the job, which is obviously going to cost them more.

Last edited by jeffnc; 07-26-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:16 PM   #15
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It is not "self priming crap", it's some of the best quality paint that exists. Different applications require different types of primers, and in this context, regular high solids paint works.

If you would read correctly what I wrote, I did not call the paint crap, I called the idea crap, sure some of it works but most does not

This is obviously false. Two coats of finish paint is less expensive than 1 coat of primer and two coats of finish paint.

It's also sometimes even false in the other scenario, where you used 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of finish paint vs. 2 coats of finish paint. This scenario might occur when painting a light colored eggshell paint over unfinished drywall. In this case if you used a high solids, high hide paint such as Super Paint, you might get by with 1 coat of finish paint and achieve proper color. If you wanted to try this, you would have to use a sealer first for proper sheen. Let's consider the costs in this scenario:

1 Primer/ 1 Finish coat:
- let's say primer costs $20/gal. and let's say finish is $32/gal. For a master bedroom of size 16 x 13 with 9 foot ceilings, or a total wall area of approximately 460 sf when accounting for doors/windows. This will require 2 gal of primer and 2 gal of finish coat for a total cost of $104.

2 Finish coats:
- same bedroom will require 3 gal of finish paint for a total cost of $96.

It is cheaper to use all finish paint in this scenario. So obviously, which is cheaper depends on how much square footage you're painting and the costs of the primer and paint.
balony

First off, 1 coat primer and 2 finish coats is still the industry standard( at least in my world)
You will hear no more from me, obviously you are way smarter than I

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